finally able to reload again! .45 ACP question

[Josh45]

Hello THR,
Its been to long!
Finally able to get to reloading again after getting set up and buying new toys!

In doing so, I bought some HP-38 and going along with Hodgon Data online. The firearm I will be using is a 1911.

Im using 1.200/1.205 COAL for 230gr TMJ RN.

4.2 Gr of Hp38

My question is, Doesnt this look a little too short?
I have a Lymans 50th Manual and it says to go to 1.275 and use 5.2 of W231. Everything and everywhere I read says W231 is Hp38. Hence why I refrence it.

 

[fxvr5]

You can use whatever OAL you want as long as it fits in the magazine, fits in the chamber and feeds reliably. If you seat the bullet deeper than the data you're using, you have to reduce the charge to keep the pressure the same.

Are you using that OAL because that's what's required to fit in your barrel?

Take a look at Hodgdon's 230 grain lead bullet data. It has the bullet much deeper (1.200) and might be a guide for your charge weights. And take a look at Speer's data, too.

https://www.speer.com/reloading/handgun-data.html

 

[Josh45]

You can use whatever OAL you want as long as it fits in the magazine, fits in the chamber and feeds reliably. If you seat the bullet deeper than the data you're using, you have to reduce the charge to keep the pressure the same.

Are you using that OAL because that's what's required to fit in your barrel?

Take a look at Hodgdon's 230 grain lead bullet data. It has the bullet much deeper (1.200) and might be a guide for your charge weights. And take a look at Speer's data, too.

https://www.speer.com/reloading/handgun-data.html

Mainly following the guide for now as Im working up a load for this gun.

 

[lordpaxman]

Mainly following the guide for now as Im working up a load for this gun.

It’s definitely recommended to start with published data first. You should at least do a plunk test to make sure whatever COL you’re starting with will in fact chamber in your gun(s). It’s a bit aggravating to get to the range with a new load and discover they don’t chamber or fit the magazine. I ended up with a slightly longer COL, 1.230” for my stable.
W231 and HP38 are the same, the online data has the same charge weights for both. Good luck.

 

[forty_caliber]

It’s definitely recommended to start with published data first. You should at least do a plunk test to make sure whatever COL you’re starting with will in fact chamber in your gun(s). It’s a bit aggravating to get to the range with a new load and discover they don’t chamber or fit the magazine. I ended up with a slightly longer COL, 1.230” for my stable.
W231 and HP38 are the same, the online data has the same charge weights for both. Good luck.

Great advice here. Does seem a bit short to me. I'm now an 'ol timer but back in the day when the 'ol timers were teaching teen .40 the advice was a fingernail thickness of the straight part (load bearing surface) should be showing.

.40

 

[Walkalong]

The old Hornady 230 Gr TrFP always showed an OAL of 1.200, and it confuses folks who assume it's a RN bullet. The 230 Gr RN in the pic should be loaded longer, I load them to fall between 1.260 & 1.265 OAL and it works in my guns with the 230 Gr RN bullets I have used. Some go a little shorter, like around 1.250.

 

[Charlie98]

As FXVR mentions... look at the Speer data for that bullet (which, I assume, is also the Speer TMJ.) I just finished up a box of those meself, and seated them to 1.26" I loaded mine over W244, with good results out of 2 different pistols, but I didn't find it to be a particularly accurate bullet vs some others that I've tried. Seating those to 1.2" with a charge of W231 in the upper range of load data will get you into pressure trouble pretty quickly.

 

[CajunRX8]

I have been loading RN Hornady to 1.250, it fits well in my SR1911 per plunk test and feeds well in all my mags. Also good amount of room for powder.

 

[reddog81]

Mainly following the guide for now as Im working up a load for this gun.

Hodgdons data is for a Lead Round Nose (LRN) and a FMJ Flat Point (FP) bullet. Lyman's data is probably the most appropriate data to use assuming it's for a 230 grain FMJ. I try to figure out the longest OAL that'll work for my gun and go with that.

FWIW 1.2 will probably work just fine. Between the light powder charge and the large volume of the case you certainly won't be over pressure.

 

[hdbiker]

My own LEE cast TL 230 grain RN, over 5.3 grains of Win 231 or HP38, 1.250 COL. They clock at + or - 825 fps, good accuracy with minimal or no leading. hdbiker

 

[Palladan44]

Ive loaded in all of the ranges youve mentioned. It depends on how far the noze sticks out. Obviously what matters as far as the loads concerned is how much of the bullet's hind end is in the case.
Youre doing the right thing, ive yet to come across a manual that has given out of spec OAL information. They must double check that stuff for some reason!!!!!!!
One last comment, is pay close attention to bullet manufacturer as even JHP or FMJ bullets intended to be similar as other brands have many differences in length, possible seating depth, diameter, jacket/plating thickness and or hardness and thus pressures created by firing will be different.

The more details you look into, the better off.
The longer i handload, the more details i wind up looking into as I learn about them.
Have a great day! Be safe

 

[Dudedog]

Looks maybe a little short to me.
With 230s and HP38 (=W231) I like either 4.7 or 5gr.
4.7 is a bit softer, 5 is maybe a hair more accurate.

5" 1911 This is the older RMR RN which had a very stubby nose(so OAL is shorter than some other RNs)
String: 7
Date: 5/15/2016
Time: 10:18:19 AM
Grains: 230
Hi Vel: 733
Low Vel: 689
Ave Vel: 702
Ext Spread: 44
Std Dev: 17
45 4.7 HP38 RMR 230 1.21
Velocity Power Factor Ft/Lbs
733 168.59 274.37 (this one trashed the ES SD #s, ES without this one would be 9...)
697 160.31 248.082
698 160.54 248.794
693 159.39 245.243
689 158.47 242.42

(Note: charges as thrown after setting measure, mixed range brass)

 

[mdi]

I've been reloading for a very long time and I don't consider myself "Mr. Reloading Expert" so I go by my published reloading manual data. For a 230 gr FMJ my Hornady manual shows 1.230" OAL. I trust my precision measuring tools a bit more than my old eyes so if my dial calipers say 1.230" I'll use that. I'll plunk test finished rounds in all my 45 ACP guns to make sure the OAL is good for them all. If I have need to change OAL (perhaps slightly different bullet profile) I'll repeat plunk testing. K.I.S.S.!

 

[vaalpens]

Im using 1.200/1.205 COAL for 230gr TMJ RN.

Are you sure those are TMJ bullets. They look similar to the RMR 230gr FMJRN bullets I bought a while ago. The RMR bullets has a brass color, where TMJ bullets I have seen have a copper color. Can you see the lead at the bottom of the bullet?

I load the RMR 230gr FMJRN bullets with COL of 1.250" or 1.255".

This was the best testing load for me with HP38:

45acp, P220, 4.4"
Case: KFA
COL: 1.255"
RMR, 230gr, FMJRN, HP38, 5gr, CCI300
Average: 663
ES: 68
SD: 25.8
Force: 224
PF: 152
Velocities: 631, 699, 667, 648, 673
Grouping @ 15yd: 0.72"
Test Date: 12/24/2018

 

[BLACKFIN]

I used a federal .45acp as reference and its 1.260, all my 45 230 RN are loaded to an COL of 1.260 and they work and chamber fine.

check your mags and chamber for fitting

 

[Walkalong]

check your mags and chamber for fitting

Very good advise

 

[JonMorganHill]

I'm loading 4.8 of HP-38 with a OAL of 1.26 using 230gr RN for my Springfield Loaded

 

[Dudedog]

I have a Lymans 50th Manual and it says to go to 1.275 and use 5.2 of W231

5.2 to start seems maybe little high IMO, here is Hodgdons data
230 GR. HDY FMJ FP Winchester 231 .451" 1.200" 4.2 751 13,800 CUP 5.3 832 16,800 CUP
230 GR. HDY FMJ FP Hodgdon HP-38 .451" 1.200" 4.2 751 13,800 CUP 5.3 832 16,800 CUP

4.2 to start 5.3 MAX with a jacketed 230 Note flat point so OAL is shorter

230 GR. LRN Winchester 231 .452" 1.200" 4.3 699 12,200 CUP 5.3 834 16,900 CUP
230 GR. LRN Hodgdon HP-38 .452" 1.200" 4.3 699 12,200 CUP 5.3 834 16,900 CUP
Lead round nose is also 5.3 MAX but shorter OAL than Lyman

I wouldn't load very many at 4.2 gr until you have a chance to verify function.
Get your OAL that plunks and fits mags then maybe load 5 at 4.2, 5 at 4.4 etc
Sweet range for me was between 4.7 and 5, another poster mentioned 4.8, vaalpens liked 5 so that agrees with what I found.

 

[Josh45]

Vaalpens,

Youre not wrong. I can see the lead on the bottom. I guess I am more out of date with this than I thought. Im already pulling the rounds and starting over with reading.

 

[Josh45]

Thanks for the advice everyone, While they did fit my magazine and chamber in this firearm,

I think I will err on the side of caution and pull the rounds I made.
Happy reloading yall!

 

[Walkalong]

Please update us.

 

[hanno]

I'm loading 4.8 of HP-38 with a OAL of 1.26 using 230gr RN for my Springfield Loaded

That is the same load I use but with Win 231. Works great with my Kimber and Colt 1911s.

And yes, as others have mentioned, HP-38 and Win 231 are the exact same powder and always have been. I got this info direct from the fine folks at Hodgdon

 

[fxvr5]

Now that you know you're using FMJ bullets, you can look at data for those.

Hornady's 10th Edition manual shows their 230 gr FMJ RN bullet loaded to 1.210" OAL. Their data for 231 (HP-38) has a start load of 5.0 grains (700 fps) and a max load of 5.7 grains (800 fps).