Finally got to shoot my S&W 442

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chaim

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I finally got to shoot my S&W 442 today. Man, there is a reason almost all these aluminum snubs are equipped with rubber grips. I went shooting after 8PM this evening, it is now past 1AM and the swelling on my hand is only now starting to go down (it had been about the size of a quarter) :uhoh: . I only shot 15 rounds out of it!!!

While it has been a while I am pretty sure that the Taurus 605 I used to have was more comfortable shooting magnums than this thing was, and I was shooting moderate to average reloads :what: .

It is definately NOT a fun gun to shoot. My groups haven't been this bad since I started shooting (at around 15 feet at least one shot didn't even make it onto the paper).

I LOVE wood grips. The grips on this thing were one of the reasons I had to have this gun over the 642s I've seen around here. I WILL be ordering some rubber grips of some kind soon (and I may invest in shooting gloves).

We'll see how it goes with the rubber, and the shooting gloves if needed. I know most people only shoot a few cylinders out of the lightweight snubs and practice mostly with a steel snubby (which I have in my Taurus 85CH), but I'm not sure if I like the idea of relying on a gun for defense that I don't shoot fairly regularly.

If I can't get used to it I'll probably trade it on an auto for pocket use (the action of an auto soaks up a good deal of recoil) or maybe another lightweight snub in a lighter caliber (.32H&R mag, .22mag). At least I did get a great price on this thing- I've seen 442s used around here for as much and more as I paid new on mine, and those didn't have the nice wood mine does ($60 option from S&W). I should be able to sell it pretty easily for what I paid (with consignment fees if I sell through a shop I'll lose a few bucks- $40-80).

Hmm, how do the lightweight .32H&R mags recoil? S&W has a Centennial style in titanium that only weighs 12oz (I think it is the 432), though with the 3oz less it may recoil similar to this 442. Certainly, a .22mag lightweight snub won't recoil too badly and .22mag is decent for defense (though not ideal) and will hold 8 rounds. Maybe I'll just trade (if I have to) for a Kahr PM9 or a Glock 26, though funds aren't great right now. Or maybe, due to cost issues, maybe I'll go with the NAA Guardian in .32 or .380 after all, or even try to find a used Kel-tec P11 (they aren't legal new in MD anymore, and the smaller Kel-tecs have never been MD legal).
 
Hello Chaim,
I finally got my 442 out to the range a couple of weeks ago for the first time and have to agree that it is not a fun gun to shoot. I also had trouble with accuracy and wondered if I even had any groups. I brought along my 3" 65 as well and shot great with that so I know I can still shoot. I have the Uncle Mike's rubber boot grips on it and they really help with the recoil but you do need to have a firm grip. I'm taking it back out this week for another session and won't be bringing anything else along so I can concentrate on the 442. I still think it is the absolute ultimate in a CCW, I just have to get used to shooting it.
 
The 642 rubber grip is no improvement over the wood. The rubber doesn't cover the rear strap, and it's a hard rubber. No padding.

Just don't shoot it too much. A dozen rounds right-handed and another with the left, then move on to a gun more suited for range-shooting.

The 442/642 is a nice small carry gun. The average number of rounds you shoot (off the range) in the course of a day, year, or lifetime is "zero". If a "situation" arises, the number of rounds is still "zero". You'll most likely get away from any situation without a shot fired. Your hand will be fine.

Regards.
 
If you really like the gun and/or caliber you could try 2 things. Use different ammo, if the standard pressure stuff was too much you could go down in weight of the bullet, or try a wadcutter.

Or you could try the Pachmayr compacs. These cover the backstrap, and allow for your pinkie on the very end of the grip. Yes these are bigger than the Hogue Bantams or Uncle Mike's boot grips, but not by too much. '

Or yes a 432 or 431 is an option, although they are now out of production. I have seen some 431's on gunbroker, but no 432's. I can tell you from personal experience that the 32 H&R does not recoil as much as standard pressure .38's. There is a difference you can notice. I have a 332, that is great and I think its a good round.

The 351PD is a 7-shot 22 mag that will provide you with even less recoil. And there is a 8-shot 22lr model (317?) that is also an option.
 
Use the old handball player's trick...soak your hand under the hot faucet for a few minutes right before you shoot. It will cut down on the bruising and swelling until you get used to the punch.

I can shoot 50 LSWCHPs before I get tired of it. Usually, to be honest, I quit after 15 or 20 and go on to something else.

John
 
I'm glad I read this thread if for no other reason than to add this one to my "don't buy" list! :what: :eek:
For the life of me, I can't see me getting a gun I can't shoot enough to be proficient with and confident enough in my ability to use it effectivly. No flame intended but why get one of these? I must be missing something here.:confused:
 
JohnBT, I never heard of that trick, wish I had. Handball hurts the hand a lot more than a couple boxes of +P in the 642.
 
No flame intended but why get one of these?
Click to expand...
Because they're so easy to carry, and fairly idiot-proof with no real safety, just a long heavy trigger pull. No hammer to get caught on clothes.

It's just not a nice range piece for a long afternoon of plinking.

I put a few rounds through the 642 for practice, then put it away and shoot the 686 for range fun. The 686 is nice, but doesn't fit well in the front pocket.

Regards.
 
Well, it is almost 24 hours later and there is still some swelling in my thumb (how do people stand the scandium and titanium .357mags? :what: ).

Here is my thinking.

I really did like the idea of this gun. Lightweight, easy to carry, organic shape (unlike the sharp lines of an auto), inexpensive (compared to something like the Kahr anyway), and in a decent caliber. Add the wood grips that have less potential to grab than the rubber and I was very happy with this find. So, I would prefer to try to find a way to make it work (and I doubt if 50-100 rounds will lower the resale value any more than the 15 out of it now- once shot it dropped in value, 50-100 will still be a very low round count with very little wear).

While I used commercial (Ultramax) reloads, which usually should be weaker (but don't have to be), they were 158gr SWC. I think the first thing I need to try is some 125gr JHP or FMJ and see if the lighter bullet weight helps (it should).

I may try the rubber, but the real problem wasn't the wood but the metal above the wood hitting my hand. Maybe I can find some custom grips that cover that part, even if made of wood it should help. Barring that I may just try some that cover the back strap and see if that does any good. The one thing I can see the rubber potentially doing for me is that it is more tacky and so the upper metal part may be less likely to push back into my hand. If I can get some Uncle Mikes boot grips on Gunbroker or Ebay they are pretty cheap so I can try the rubber and enclosed backstrap to see if it helps, and if it does they are still pretty compact. As for Pachmayr, I thought about it but I don't like any of their grips very much.

I might try a shooting glove. While I prefer to shoot the way I would carry it, it would be better to get some practice at least with the actual gun. A shooting glove and an acceptable amount of practice would be better than no practice at all.

Last, I'm pretty sure I won't be trying +P anytime soon, if ever. One should practice (at least occasionally) with what they use for defense so I'll probably need to find a good non +P option for this gun. Unforunately, out of a 2" barrel I'm not sure if there are any JHP in a non +P that will expand. Lead HP and SWC or SWCHP usually are in the heavier bullet weights. So, I'm not 100% sure what I'll do about that (maybe shoot one cylinder of 125gr +P and one cylinder of 158gr SWC that aren't +P back to back and see which is worse and go with the gentler one).

If I keep this gun I want to get to where I can stand shooting it at least a box at a time. I may just need to build some calouses on my hand to do so. I am not a fan of shooting only a cylinder or two of ammo out of a gun that I plan to use for serious purposes. Any gun I plan to use for defense I better be familiar and proficient with. You don't do that by shooting 5-15 rounds per range trip (OK, maybe if everyday is a range trip). If I can't get to 50 rounds at a time without undue torture I will consider trading it towards a lower caliber snub or a similar size (or smaller) auto.
 
Switching to a lighter bullet weight should help as long as they aren't loaded hotter to make up for the lighter bullet weight. Like many people here have said, these are not marketed as fun range guns. They are a no-frills personal defense weapon. I can fairly comfortably shoot my 642 for about 50 standard pressure rounds before my accuracy starts to suffer. After that I usually just fire off my current carry loads, load it up with new and put it back in my pocket.

Disadvantages- sharp recoil, low capacity, moderate power

Advantages-smoother lines to aid in concealability, as reliable as you can get, grip shape redirects recoil directly back into my hand rather than having that nasty muzzle flip that sub-compact semi-auto's have, a historically decent manstopping cartridge

The advantages outweigh the disadvantages for me...

Just my .02....

W
 
The first time I took my 642 to the range, I managed to shoot about 20 rounds of S&B 158 gr. lead SWC before calling it quits. Still I wanted to see how the gun did with my carry load (158 grain LSWCHP +P). Made it through 10 shots before I'd had enough. Probably would have fared better, but I replaced the rubber grips with CT lasergrips (hard plastic, boot grip style). My right hand was tender for about a week. Surprised me since I have a Taurus 85TI (titanium) that's not all that unpleasant to shoot (it does still wear Taurus' excellent factory rubber grips, though).

Nevertheless, my 642 is a near constant companion. I love it. I just don't love to shoot it (FWIW, I have an older, all stainless 640 that is exactly the same size as my 642 but much heavier, this one I like to shoot).
 
Like many people here have said, these are not marketed as fun range guns. They are a no-frills personal defense weapon.
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Exactamundo.

I can't see it being useful to someone to anyone who doesn't carry it. I have a 642 and I sure don't shoot it much with full power ammo. I know I can keep 'em on a pie plate at self-defense ranges, and that's good enough.

StrikeEagle

ps I have Pachmyr Compacs on mine
 
I don't understand this. I've never had this type of problem with any J-frame (except the 637, which banged my middle finger due to tight spacing). Any small powerful gun needs to be gripped well..... I admit I do not shoot magnums though.
 
I have a 642 that came with the Crimson Trace grips, LG-305, direct from Smith & Wesson. Both my wife and I shoot it often, at least 50-75 rounds a session. She has fairly small hands and has never complained about the gun making her hands sore. We shoot WWB ammo, and end the sessions with 10 rounds each of +P. The 642 with CT grips is an outstanding concealed carry weapon and I have no complaints.
 
What part of your thumb is sore? I would try making adjustments to your grip first. When I first got my 642, I had a little trouble with the cylinder latch hitting my thumb. Not sure what I changed, but I don't have that problem anymore.

As for your group sizes, I've always found new small DAO pistols to take a little more getting used to than larger guns. And those sights can't be helping too much. (Actually, I imagine the 442 is better than the 642 in that regard, being black.)
 
I have had my 442 since about 1996; it now has about 900 rounds through it. The grips are the original Uncle Mike's Spegel boot grip in firm rubber.

The 442 is probably the best pocket gun out there, IMHO; compact, reliable, fairly powerful, quality, and a good compromise between the helium-weights and all steel. It is well worth mastering.

My practice regimen is to fire about 15 rounds of my standard velocity SWC handload, but to do it in "ball and dummy" fashion. The usual way to do this is to load two adjacent chambers, skip one, and load one. Spin the cylinder and close it without looking at the gun. In a normal sixgun this gives you a random 50% chance of a live hammer fall or an empty chamber. Obviously in a 5 shot gun you modify this a little. So you can load 1, 2, or 3 rounds if you choose. Being that the 442 is an alloy gun I prefer to put fired cases in the empty chambers to cushion the blow--it might help longeivity, and it can't hurt. I fire using a par time on a timer, and using B&D gives me good practice, a check on any tendency to flinch, conserves ammo, and a lot more hammer falls for the rounds fired than anything else. Putting just one round in and four empties will really give you a workout within that 15 round quota.

My wife has a M37 airweight with stock small grips that she shoots just fine and I like it as well. We had a set of Crimson Trace stocks on it for a short time (I won the things). Not only do I consider the laser a counterproductive gimmick, but the grips hurt like hell in recoil. She didn't complain, but then she is one of those people impervious to pain for some reason.

Stay with it.
 
Might I suggest two low recoil cartridges for your 442. The Winchester 110gr Silvertip and the Federal 110gr Hydra-Shok. Both are standard pressure rounds with minimal recoil. Also I would suggest a change in grip. For single hand use, grip it as tight as possible. For two handed use, try a tight Weaver, pressing hard with the shooting hand and pulling hard with the support hand. In either grip, try pressing down on the part of the grip directly below the cylinder release with the inside part of the first joint, and hold the tip of the tip out away from the revolver. Hold the revolver high in your grip, with the web of your hand possibly higher than the wood part. You may have to pull the trigger with the first joint of your trigger finger.

BTW the scandiums are an absolute bear to shoot with magnums.
 
Dienekes said:
We had a set of Crimson Trace stocks on it for a short time (I won the things). Not only do I consider the laser a counterproductive gimmick, but the grips hurt like hell in recoil. She didn't complain, but then she is one of those people impervious to pain for some reason.

Stay with it.
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I don't claim that the Crimson Trace Lasergrips offer the absolute "best" grips for comfort for the j-frame smith, but to call the CT lasergrips a "counterproductive gimmick" is IMO way off base.

In low light or nighttime conditions you will find the CT Lasergrips are anything but a "gimmick". In bright, daylight conditions you won't need a laser, and at night the lasergrips make ALL the difference in the world.

We all have our opinions, that's why I qualify this response as "my" opinion. But I think if you will research the laser issue you will find more and more proponents of quality laser products and less and less opponents.

My personal favorite firearm for concealed carry is indeed Crimson Trace equipped.. It is a S&W model 638 (Airweight bodyguard). I'm sure that if I have to fire the little revolver in anger the CT Lasergrips might make my palm sore, but I can guarantee you if it happens in low light or at night my chances of hitting my target will be greatly enhanced.

CT is releasing a set of their Lasergrips for the Sig P239 next month, and you can bet I'm already in line for a set of those.

The military, specifically the elite units, don't think of lasers as gimmicks. More and more leo's are using them, and the recent articles I've read in the current pistol/revolver magazines have all been very complimentary..

I can't speak of the quality of all of the different laser manufacturers products, but I do KNOW from personal experience the lasers sold by Crimson Trace and CAT (of Argentina) are high quality and well worth the money. The lasers of LaserMax also have a great reputation, altho I haven't personally had a firearm so equipped.

Not trying to start a war, just a genuine difference of opinion.

Best Wishes,

JP
 
Jkwas said:
Why did you dump the 605? Too big? :confused:
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Well, I'll start with why I bought it. I wanted a small framed snub, primarily for future pocket carry (out of state, if I move, and/or if MD ever became a CCW state). I am happy with a 3" K-frame IWB so I didn't think I needed something that small for IWB or belt carry (though now I am happy using either that way- the extra thinness of the J-frame is nice). I also wanted it for backup ankle carry but that won't work for me (I'm too heavy so my calves are too big for ankle carry to work) so it was to be primarily (but not only) a pocketable gun. I have always been a big .357mag fan so I figured it was worth the "cost" of having it be 3oz heavier than the .38spl only Taurus 85 and I could still shoot mostly .38spl in practice sessions.

I found that shooting .357mag out of a gun that small just didn't work for me. Too stout for more than a couple cylinders at a time with any comfort, and I'd be in outright pain if I forced myself to shoot an entire box. The recoil plus the tacky rubber grips actually caused the rubber to wear pretty decent patches of skin off when I insisted on a full box. Due to concerns about follow up shot speed, and the fact that I don't like using an ammo/gun combo for defense without practicing regularly with it, I decided I wouldn't shoot it with magnums even in a defensive capacity. If I was only going to use it as a .38spl it wasn't really worth the extra 3oz v. the Taurus 85. So, I sold it and some time later replaced it with a Taurus 85.

I did consider this experience when buying the 442. I expected stout recoil, probably on par with the Taurus 605. However, I meant it to be a pocket gun and it is only 15oz so it is well suited to that role so I figured it would be worth the trade-off in unpleasant recoil and slower follow-up shots (it would only rarely be a primary since my Taurus 85 will work in a pocket in all but dress pants if it is the only gun on me). What I didn't count on is that this seems to have more recoil than that 605 did and that was with Ultramax commercial reloads and not even +P.
 
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