Finally putting together an AR

[MikePaiN]

I don't get to do much centerfire rifle shooting. I "practice" with a .22 at my indoor club but that the extent of it. I like to keep a rifle for SD/SHTF...I've had an M1 Carbine on hand for years and figured its time to get something more capable in a NATO caliber.
From two separate local sellers I manged to find great deals on a complete unfired upper and lower. This build ended up costing a total of $750 w/4 mags.
The bottom end:
STAG 15 complete lower w/fixed stock(CT compliant)
http://www.stagarms.com/product_info.php?cPath=18_32&products_id=235

The top end:
Rifleuppers 16" Honey Dipper w/ Magpul MBUS
http://www.wix.com/eddieecklund/rifleuppers#!honey-dipper

I'll get pics up as soon as I get it together.

 

[Sock Puppet]

Sounds good; looking forward to the pics!

 

[MrCleanOK]

underneath the ribs on the barrel, what is the contour?

 

[MikePaiN]

underneath the ribs on the barrel, what is the contour?

That is a good question Mr.Clean......I did what research I could on this upper but there's not much to read or see. I guess I'm going on faith. I do like the unique looks, heat dispersion should be excellent and the seller says the entire upper is of of high quality and well put together.

 

[kwelz]

Am I the only one who thinks that abomination looks borderline unsafe?
It is probably an illusion because of how thick it is at the chamber end but it looks very thin at that muzzle end. I am also curious as to what that screwy looking "fluting" will do to the barrel harmonics.

No offense but 425 is a lot to pay for a no name upper with no real specs listed and using an el-cheapo rail. I would suggest finding out if it could be returned and spending your hard earned money on something a bit better that isn't going to weight 10 pounds.

 

[chrome_austex]

Agreed, there are better upper choices, but as my gym teacher liked to say... whatever blows your skirt up.

 

[madcratebuilder]

A range report and more pic's of the barrel would be nice. First time I have seen that style of barrel machining on the AR.

The hand guard looks like it is a MI style, they are a bit short on specs.

 

[bri]

...No offense but 425 is a lot to pay for a no name upper with no real specs listed and using an el-cheapo rail. I would suggest finding out if it could be returned and spending your hard earned money on something a bit better that isn't going to weight 10 pounds.

Agreed. If the upper were $300, then maybe it'd be worth a try.

 

[MikePaiN]

Hmm...why such negativity for this upper?
Yes it is assembled by a young company....From what I can dig up, seems they are into what they are doing and care about their products. I can't find any complaints or issues on the products and those that are posted are positive.
I also found: Rifleuppers builds from JD Machine receivers, rails and handles..... quality parts.
@ kwelz ..what's up with you? Are you selling your own homegrown components or something? Bad mouthing a product you obviously know nothing is just dumb.
I don't know where the 10lbs. came form(usual internet nonsense) but the actual weight of the complete Honey Dipper upper is just over 5lbs and there is nothing unsafe about a radial fluted barrel....

 

[kwelz]

The negativity comes from the fact it is far overpriced for what it is. No real specs listed but there are a few things we can deduce.

• It is a heavy profile barrel that they then tried to lighten. This makes no sense whatsoever.
• It has a 1/9 twist barrel. Why any company would still put out a 1/9 barrel in 2011 is beyond me.
• It lists that they fire 2 test rounds but makes no mention of HP/MPI testing so I would be willing to bet it is not tested.
• They make no mention of Chrome lining or what type of feedramps they use.
• No mention whatsoever on what materials they use for the barrel or bolt.

If that is an MI rail then that part isn't as bad. It looked like a YHM rail and those things are heavy junk.

However the fact remains that this is an upper build to unknown specs with an unknown level of components and little if any testing done. All this for $450? No thank you.

If it works for you then great. But I would not trust it for anything more than shooting dirt.

 

[SentinelStrategic]

I would have to echo kwelz in some of his observations. That website gives very little information, and that often is troubling. Past experience has shown that sites like that have something to hide, they have no clue what they're doing, or they're just plain lazy and don't want to put any more effort into the website. There's no such thing as "too much info" for a part or component on your own website. However, there is such a thing as not giving enough information.
$425 is not unreasonable for a no-name upper, though. I would have been shocked if it was over $500, but $425 is right on par with most bottom-end uppers and components. That's about on par with other lower-end companies like DPMS, Del-Ton, etc.

However, what first struck me as odd is the "Honey Dipper" barrel. Basically, they've taken a barrel that is of a heavy match contour and then machined out concentric "fluting". The best way to describe this design is to refer to a vacuum cleaner hose or a drain tiling tube. You have recesses all along the length of the barrel, but perpendicular to the barrel. This likely works well as a heat sink and allows faster cooling of the barrel. However, you will be able to deviate (bend) the barrel easier due to poor structural integrity. If you look at drain tiling or vacuum hose, they have the same recesses to allow the tube to bend. The same principle applies here.
If you want to flute a barrel, you do it longitudinally, not latitudinally.

 

[Fishbed77]

In my opinion, if you want a complete carbine upper in the $400-$500 price range, you would be much better off geting one from somewhere like Palmetto State Armory. They have 1:7 twist, chrome lining, HP/MPI testing, quality parts, etc., and have established a good reputation for themselves.

 

[Fishbed77]

Oops - double tap.

 

[MikePaiN]

Ah kwelz, you do have some reasoning behind your commentary, but you still were pulling facts out of your butt.
I don't know it looks like a decent upper too me, I didn't feel the need to over think it or scrutinize every part in the thing. It was available locally, unfired for $400. If when I go to pick it up, the upper turns out to be a POS, I simply won't buy it.

 

[Fishbed77]

Ah kwelz, you do have some reasoning behind your commentary, but you still were pulling facts out of your butt.
I don't know it looks like a decent upper too me, I didn't feel the need to over think it or scrutinize every part in the thing. It was available locally, unfired for $400. If when I go to pick it up, the upper turns out to be a POS, I simply won't buy it.

MikePain, kwelz made it clear that he was stating his opinion about the thing being an abomination (though his words were a bit harsh). The assumption is that since you are posting here, you are looking for opinions about this purchase (why else post on an internet bulletin board?).

The other things he mentions (the general desire to have a 1:7 barrel twist to fire heavier bullets, HP/MPI testing, benefits of chrome barrel barrel lining, M4 feedramps, etc.) are not facts pulled out of his butt. These are all very desirable features that most manufacturers are proud to advertise, if they have them (especially since the advent of the infamous "Chart"). Some of these features can be difficult to see upon visual inspection. And most of them can be had in this price range, if you are willing to search a bit.

That said, if you don't want to "scrutinize every part in the thing", that's fine too - but not the way most folks feel about such a purchase. It's good that you will be able to visually inpect the upper before buying. For all we know, it may be a quality piece with quality parts - but it's defniitely hard to tell from the website. Good luck!

 

[SentinelStrategic]

The other things he mentions (the general desire to have a 1:7 barrel twist to fire heavier bullets, HP/MPI testing, benefits of chrome barrel barrel lining, M4 feedramps, etc.) are not facts pulled out of his butt. These are all very desirable features that most manufacturers are proud to advertise, if they have them (especially since the advent of the infamous "Chart"). Some of these features can be difficult to see upon visual inspection. And most of them can be had in this price range, if you are willing to search a bit.

Agreed. These features are desirable, and it is very unusual and somewhat suspicious that a company would not advertise these if they had them. My personal unimpressed feelings about the "The Chart" aside, there are some good points to be had by getting parts that conform to specific areas of quality. I'm not saying this setup doesn't have these features, but it'd be strange if they had them and didn't mention them on a website that is designed for advertisement and sales. When I build rifles for customers, I often call this a "clue" as to why they may not be ideal to do business with. In this age, there should be no reason for someone to have to call a company directly just to obtain that kind of info.

That said, if you don't want to "scrutinize every part in the thing", that's fine too - but not the way most folks feel about such a purchase. It's good that you will be able to visually inpect the upper before buying. For all we know, it may be a quality piece with quality parts - but it's definitely hard to tell from the website. Good luck!

I also found it hard to decipher anything from the website.
This again relates to the lack of information on the website. If someone goes and looks at any properly built website, be it BCM, Noveske, DD, LMT, DPMS, Del-Ton, Rock River, S&W, Palmetto State Armory, etc etc, they would see that all of these builders list all of the features. Not listing information often leads one to believe that there is intentional omission for a specific reason. What that omission is depends on the company and the reasoning.

Ultimately, if you get it and it works, more power to you for saving a few bucks. However, don't let saving money be the driving reason for getting a "gamble" over a "sure thing"

 

[LobbinLead]

The handguards are made by FSI the Barrel by Citadel. Upper and CH is JD Machine.

The above statement is per several buyers and reviews I found.

If anyone was curious they could have just emailed the guy. Eddie doesn't build them he just sells them. His partner Adam does the work on the uppers.

I don't own one but I won't bash them either. Hope it works out for you and you get good service from it.

 

[MikePaiN]

I was blindsided by the bashing that's all. As for kwelz..calling the upper "unsafe" and "weighing 10lbs", no matter what his reason was pure BS and uncalled for commentary.

I can't answer all the questions but I did find it has the M4 ramp, is built from quality components and by a stand up company. Also the owners cousin has the same upper and has shot the hell out of it with with no issues, only praise.

 

[browneu]

Let is know how it handles. Good for you supporting a new business. I was one of the first people to buy a Fusion 1911 when Mr Serva started the business. However, he was very open about the parts he used and I knew his background.

Sent from my LG-P999 using Tapatalk

 

[Jon_L]

Tagged to hear how it turns out. I'm interested.

 

[MikePaiN]

I just got the upper home and popped it on the STAG lower.
Let me say....You all that slammed the "Honey Dipper" are missing out on a good thing.
This is a quality built upper. It is rock solid and tight, all the components are lined up perfectly with no rattles or play. The radial flutes do nothing to weaken the barrel in any way, they appear to be "around" the standard taper. The upper and lower went together with no play at all. The complete setup(upper w/sights/lower/30r mag) weighed in at 7.4lbs unloaded. Range report and pics to come.....

 

[kwelz]

So let me understand this. You put the gun together and already call it good. You say it is well built based off the "fit and finish" which are the two least important considerations for an AR.

We still know nothing about the specs of the barrel or bolt. Or anything about this thing other than you think it is pretty.

 

[mshootnit]

well the only way to settle this is to get the thing together shoot some test targets and give a good range report with pictures. If the darn thing is 100% and really accurate I guess it is as it does. If it holds about 3 moa or blows up then we would know that too. But keep in mind if there are no pictures it didn't happen.

 

[gotigers]

Sorry, but the cross axis flutes may lower wait, but they give up strength along the barrels length making it more flexible. Thus being less accuarate. This barrel will be no more stiff than if it were the smallest diameter of the groove. Each groove will create a stress riser at the smallest diameter. A good sharp tap from the side could break the barrel. It is a flawed design.

 

[kwelz]

I don't think I would go so far as to say the barrel will break but I still worry about harmonics. And I worry about that narrow point near the muzzle.

Get back to us after it has been run hard.