Finally: Word Leaks on Biden Group's Gun Control Plans

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Measures the Biden group is working on:

-Assault Weapons Ban
-Magazine Capacity Limits
-Universal Background Checks for All Firearm Sales
-Track Firearm Movements through a National Database
-Strengthen Mental Health Checks
-Stiffen Penalties for Carrying Near Schools or Giving Guns to Minors
-Gathering Support from Retailers (Wal-Mart mentioned by name)
-Federal-level Mental Health Programs
-'Mordernization' of BATF Gun-Tracking Procedures

Can anyone explain which of these, with the possible exception of "Federal-level Mental Health Programs" (which are not authorized by the Constitution) would have done anything to prevent Sandy Hook, Aurora, or any other mass shooting?

These measures have nothing at all to do with preventing mass shootings, and Biden and his cohorts know it. They are about nothing more than robbing us of liberty.
 
Remember in Star Wars when the republic becomes the empire? I see so many parallels, it's uncanny.
 
No surprise to this veteran observer -- all by and large spelled out explicitly in The President's address after Newtown.

Like Feinstein posting a draft of the new proposal, it's an opening salvo meant to probe the parameters of the negotiation. That it ran as a news item prior to an official announcement gives it trial balloon status -- poke an prod a bit and see what kicks back.

So...what kicks back?
 
We've been infiltrated. Look at some of the threads going on here in GGD and you'd think it was us debating the Brady Bunch, not a THR only discussion.
Gun ownership supporters come in all shapes and sizes. When I check-marked the terms and conditions to join here, I don't recall a hive-mind clause. ;)
 
Biden’s group has expanded its focus to include measures that would not need congressional approval and could be quickly implemented by executive action, according to interest-group leaders who have discussed options with Biden and key Cabinet secretaries.

Buckeye, any word on what these said measure are to include?

Gun ownership supporters come in all shapes and sizes. When I check-marked the terms and conditions to join here, I don't recall a hive-mind clause.

While this is true, it feels like that's what this community is up against sometimes...

Rip usa

1776-2013

Victorious warriors win first and then go to war, while defeated warriors go to war first and then seek to win.

-Sun Tzu
 
So what you're saying is that you support reasonable gun control, reasonable being defined as that which does not affect you. Correct?

I'm sure you'll say no, but your argument implies there is a portion of gun owners you're willing to cut loose in the name of preserving what you see as the important parts of the RKBA.

If they were to confiscate all "assault weapons" and handguns holding more than ten rounds tomorrow morning, it would make an insignificant mark on my collection. Most of it is made of "traditional" guns. Lots of bolt, singles, a lever, etc.

However, their goal has been stated as desiring confiscation of all privately held arms. Why should I let them into your tent? My tent may not be first, but they are surely coming to my tent. I'd rather help you defend yours, as it also defends mine.

But I guess I'm the one that's closed minded.
 
Midnight Oil:

The only two specifically mentioned in the article were:

-Federal-level Mental Health Programs
-'Mordernization' of BATF Gun-Tracking Procedures

Beyond that, it was vague. Who knows what they'll try.

There is plenty of precedent for Executive Order being used to do a variety of gun-unfriendly things. Most prominently, imported firearms and firearm-related products are potential targets for banning. They could attempt to completely cut off all non-domestic supply of firearms, ammunition, parts, etc. Pure speculation on my part, of course.

Also, don't let the "Mental Health" stuff kid you. Who knows, they may try to make us pass mental health checks to obtain firearms. As of now, only the people in that room know what they mean by "Mental Health Programs".
 
Mental Health Program Questionaire

Q: Do you want a gun?

a) Yes

b) No

If subject answers yes, they have failed the mental evaluation. Anybody who wants a gun is nuts.
 
So what you're saying is that you support reasonable gun control, reasonable being defined as that which does not affect you. Correct?

I'm sure you'll say no, but your argument implies there is a portion of gun owners you're willing to cut loose in the name of preserving what you see as the important parts of the RKBA.

If they were to confiscate all "assault weapons" and handguns holding more than ten rounds tomorrow morning, it would make an insignificant mark on my collection. Most of it is made of "traditional" guns. Lots of bolt, singles, a lever, etc.

However, their goal has been stated as desiring confiscation of all privately held arms. Why should I let them into your tent? My tent may not be first, but they are surely coming to my tent. I'd rather help you defend yours, as it also defends mine.

But I guess I'm the one that's closed minded.
You took that into the weeds -- all I was objecting to was the suggestion that your opinions on the matter reflected a proper, larger THR ethos, and anything other be deemed "infiltration".

Nothing else was stated or implied, and your assumptions of my position are way off.

When the political climate here is so fraught that members can't say one unrelated thing and have it be so openly, challengingly and derisively misconstrued, it has a really chilling effect.
 
The more draconian and extreme their plans are the easier they are to defeat. We need them calling for registration, confiscation, and incarceration.
 
If you're considering these idiot's "wish list" as chiseled in stone before any debate takes place, I guess we're screwed already.
Their wish list is merely their "opening barrage;" I'm sure they'd be willing to give up one or two items in the name of compromise ;)

Another Sun Tzu Quote:
"So long as my strategy remains formless, the keenest eye cannot discern it, nor the wise make plans against it"

Now that we know what we may be up against, we can shape our tactics against it. Unlike the Fiscal Cliff "deal", we'll have plenty of time to contact our reps. I would say that above all others, the registration clause is easily the most dangerous, and must be stopped at all costs. That's not to say we should trade this for the others, but we definitly need to prioritize on that.

Such a database would enable the effective implementation of any subsequent restriction, up to and including confiscation

I think most of the items on the list are politically untenable (even AWB and mag limits) and most of the other stuff will be too expensive to pass off even in the name of public safety.

Personally, I think the goal of this whole exercise is to put up a Grand Public Safety Bill as a hail Mary, let it die in Congress, and blame the Republicans for a failure to save the children during the midterms. These Political Farces are SOP for the administration this far, so it'd suprise me if they're truly serious about passing this bill, as opposed to simply hanging it around the necks of their opponents like an Albatross during fiscal negotiations (the stuff pols actually care about). Obama tends to not waste his energy on projects that aren't already likely winners (bailouts, stimulus, healthcare, taxes, etc.). Obama's party/people were all solidly behind those measures from the get-go, unlike gun laws (though I deeply disrespect him, Reid has been at best reluctant to go into this matter).

When the political climate here is so fraught that members can't say one unrelated thing and have it be so openly, challengingly and derisively misconstrued, it has a really chilling effect.
Indeed. We are not at war, there is no need for shouting down skeptics or dissenters. Many of us who have crystallized our beliefs regarding gun control could be described as "radicals" (myself included) whose views are far out of the mainstream of the blissfully apathetic unarmed. Being "radical" in beliefs makes us a more co-hesive group with reinforced ideology, but makes us more insular at the same time. It can also limit our flexibility. That is not good, and will inevitably limit our voice. Instead, we should welcome others' dissenting comments, and if possible, make rational arguments to support our ideas over theirs, and hopefully persuade or educate them to our point of view.

Being close-minded does not help us curry favor with anyone, but being short-sighted (i.e. focused on immediate self-preservation) doesn't ultimately serve us well either. We really must hang together because vocal gun owners are a minority, and our various subsets are even less significant on the national stage. Only by banding together in our common interest will we achieve relevance.

Anyone in favor of drafting a Gunowners' Bill of Rights? I'll start a thread in General to see what kinda lively debate that kindles :uhoh:. Not as an addendum to the 2nd, but more as an "appendix" explaining what it specifically protects, any limiitations, and any implied protections. We seem to focus too often on the purpose of the 2nd Amendment, but not as much on the brass tacks of how it should be practiced (as opposed to what we do now).

TCB
 
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I concur with post #38 entirely.

The more time passes, the less fervor there will be. The more they try and fail, the worse they look. The more they stall, the more momentum they lose.

Folks, this battle is half psychological. If they already have US looking around for pieces of falling sky, they have US convinced that they have the momentum. They DON'T. WE do. I never heard ANYONE say they wouldn't dare try it. They TRY it every session of congress. Pay attention, do what we are supposed to do, BUT KEEP YOUR FECES CONGLOMERATED HERE. I swear, if I was in a foxhole with some of you guys, I would have thrown you out after the first gunshot when you started crying. Just because there is a fight, doesn't mean you are going to lose it.
 
If half of the collections of the US citizens were frog-marched to the smelter, put through testing and forced to register the crumbs; would another Democrat ever stand a chance of being elected to congress ? I can't even fathom anything like this really passing. I choose to remain vigilant for obvious reasons, but my contemplative side makes me wonder what kind of damage this would do to the democratic party.
 
Leaks??
What leaks??

Joe Biden has been preaching & voting gun control since he first came on the national Democratic U.S. Politician scene in 1973.

He has had an F-rating on gun control by the NRA since anyone first heard of him on a national level in 1973!!

Putting him in charge of Obama's violent crime / gun control task force is like catching a starving fox and turning him loose in the chicken coop at night to watch the chickens!

Besides that, Joe Biden is just barely smart enough to know Salt Rifles are BAD! Mkay?
He knows Salt leads to high blood pressure. Mkay?


Know gun control history, or history repeats itself.
And register & vote accordingly!

Did you?

rc
 
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Leaks??
What leaks??

Joe Biden has been preaching & voting gun control since he first came on the national Democratic U.S. Politician scene in 1973.

He has had an F-rating on gun control by NRA the since anyone first heard of him on a national level in 1973!!

Putting him in charge of Obama's violent crime / gun control task force is like catching a starving fox and turning him loose in the chicken coop at night to watch the chickens!

Besides that, Joe Biden is just barely smart enough to know Salt Rifles are BAD! []Mkay?[/]
He knows Salt leads to high blood pressure. []Mkay?[/]


Know gun control history, or history repeats itself.
And register & vote accordingly!

Did you?

rc

We are way past this point.

Unfortunately the pen is no longer mightier than the sword.
 
Has Obama asked his buddies in Chicago how well gun control works?

Its worked just fine. Has the mayor ever been attacked? No....he has armed guards. Plus it means he is doing something about the 500 some people killed last year.
 
Sounds like we all need to contact our favorite firearms retailers to let them know they'll be losing a lot of business if they support any of this junk.
 
Personally, I think the goal of this whole exercise is to put up a Grand Public Safety Bill as a hail Mary, let it die in Congress, and blame the Republicans for a failure to save the children during the midterms. These Political Farces are SOP for the administration this far, so it'd suprise me if they're truly serious about passing this bill, as opposed to simply hanging it around the necks of their opponents like an Albatross during fiscal negotiations (the stuff pols actually care about).

I can see that.

IMO... it's a dangerous game for them. They have to keep the debate as broad as possible. If there was an actual role call vote on Feinstein's bill, for instance, that could be very bad for them. Obama himself managed to somehow convince people pre-reelection that he wasn't going to try to "take their guns." We have lots of Democrats that run for office that try VERY hard to conceal their real feelings on gun control. That run as "friends of sportsmen." If the Democrats really did line up as a party and vote for the Feinstein bill, it could be politically disastrous for them. Very few "moderate" Americans could really look at that bill and conclude it represents anything other than an intrusive government. As the very worst example of what a large and paternalistic government really looks like.

I used to teach American Government classes at OU in Norman and then at RSC in Claremore. When I would teach the ideology section, I would pass out questionnaires. They were designed to see where you fit on the left/right spectrum but also on the small government versus large government one. Every single class I ever taught came out mostly libertarian. Americans believe in personal freedom and they are suspicious of a government that takes away their freedoms. A really strong push on straight gun control by the Democratic Party could very well push some of the people in the center to vote Republican next time. And second term Presidents always lose seats in their midterm election. Obama and his advisors don't want to end up facing a solid wall of House and Senate Republicans for his last two years in office.

Gregg
 
Sounds like we all need to contact our favorite firearms retailers to let them know they'll be losing a lot of business if they support any of this junk.

great idea, we need to post email contacts for walmart, bass pro, academy, gander mountain, etc.
 
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