Finding a supply of lead

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from reading everything i can on casting, it seems that one can take straight wheel weight lead and cast bullets without adding anything to the alloy. Can the same be done to scrap lead? Or do i need to add something with tin or antimony to it. I only plan on reloading for handgun bullets, and i reload for 9mm, 40s&w, and 45acp. I understand pure lead has a hardness of 5, where wheel weights is around 10-13.
 
You can believe this or not, but I just had new tires installed on my truck and they re-used used weights! I heard this was happening, but never saw it until now. I would stop and get lead from these places, and all of a sudden, they quit selling to anyone. Now I know why!
That's pretty common practice in most of the shops where I knew the owners. So long as the clips aren't broken it makes little diffference whether they're old or new.
 
it seems that one can take straight wheel weight lead and cast bullets without adding anything to the alloy.

yep, straight ww is fine for most pistol shooting.

Can the same be done to scrap lead? Or do i need to add something with tin or antimony to it.

That would depend on the scrap. There are ways to determine the hardness to get an idea of what you might have. That will tell you the hardness, not the composition. Depending on where the "scrap" comes from could tell you what is in it. If it is scrap from a radiator shop, it will have lots of tin in it, if it comes from a roofer or plumber it would most likely be pure or real close to it. There are many sources for lead.

You may want to invest in a thermometer when you first start out and keep your temps low so that if you do get in some zinc it won't melt & ruin your batch. Also knowing your melt temp could clue you in as to the makeup of your lead.
 
bullseye308:

You may want to invest in a thermometer when you first start out and keep your temps low so that if you do get in some zinc it won't melt & ruin your batch.

I'm new to casting and just so I’ve gotten this right, you are saying that I can heat the pot just hot enough to melt the lead and the zinc will remain solid. So...

When the lead just melts where can I expect the zinc to be - top or bottom?

Can you tell me the melting points of lead and zinc?

Thanks.....Doc
 
Some of the wheel weights coming from China have all kinds of bad juju in them, other heavy metals that are very toxic. The last study done showed more lead in their toys than their wheel weights (don't quote me on the independent study).
 
heat the pot just hot enough to melt the lead and the zinc will remain solid. So... When the lead just melts where can I expect the zinc to be - top or bottom?

Yep, heat it just enough to melt the lead and the zinc will float. Once you have a good melt going, anything that floats gets skimmed off. 700 is a good temp, 720-730 might get you in trouble with zinc.
 
I'm new to casting and just so I’ve gotten this right, you are saying that I can heat the pot just hot enough to melt the lead and the zinc will remain solid. So...

When the lead just melts where can I expect the zinc to be - top or bottom?

Can you tell me the melting points of lead and zinc?

Thanks.....Doc

Yes keep the pot temp between 650 and 700 and the zinc weights will float to the top with the clips.

ry%3D400.jpg

After fluxing and scooping it will look like this.

ry%3D400.jpg
 
Recently I bought the "remnants of a fishing weight casting setup" that was said to have come from an elderly fellowwho was "getting too old to make his own." Scattered between 2 crates, I found a large number of 1-1.5lb Saeco-stamped ingots, some heavier round chunks appearing to be lead from the bottom of a casting pot, a bread loaf pan full of slightly-oxidized unsized and unlubed 158gr .358 RNFP bullets, and 5 small coffee cans full of lubed/sized/gas-checked .309" 175gr spitzer style rifle bullets with a lesser quantity of .401" 170gr RNFP bullets. Clearly this was no fisherman's stash!

It was all offered to me for $0.60/lb for the "clean lead" and $0.50/lb for the "copper-mixed" lead. I guess the gas-checks made the lead less valuable to my source. Anyways, I walked away with 161lbs clean lead and 40lbs of copper mixed lead for a grand total of $116.60. Judging from the going rate of ingots on eBay etc, I paid roughly 40% of what it's worth...did I hit a small motherlode?

I'm hesitant to use/trust someone else's casting jobs myself when I have no idea what exactly the alloy is or what their competency level in casting was but I really hate to melt down all those beautiful gas-checked bullets. Would I be better off trying to resell them as they are or just melt them down into ingots and save the copper for trading later?
 
well i know the local BassPro sells lead ingots for melting into fishing sinkers......might want to try checking out a fishing/tackle shop.
 
bullseye308 - I appreciate your advice about separating the zinc from the lead and the temperature ranges - now I have some references to work with.

Missouri Bullet - The temperature warning is much appreciated too. My blood levels are the highest normal for lead because when I was never warned (including reloading manuals) about the lead content of primer compound. I don’t think that the highest normal (5mg/deciliter) is acceptable - zero or slightly above to account for the natural occurrence of lead in the environment is acceptable.

RustyFN - I appreciate the photos because they give a visual reference as to what to expect - a great help.

Thanks to all....Doc
 
Something to keep in mind is talking to people really helps. I was talking to local guy the other day who I saw picking up scrap steel. I asked him where he took it, thinking it would be our local scrap yard. He said he sold it to another yard about 30 miles away that I didn't know about, and gave me the phone number. I called them and their lead is only 35 cents a pound. I've been paying 50 cents here. Asking around can often find you some lead.
 
Lead Pipe........Anyone know if it is typically pure lead? Probably where it is soldered there would be some tin content.

Thanks in advance,

MOFreedom
 
The melting point for zinc is 787 degrees. Now, that means that a molten pot of lead @ 750 degrees would NOT melt a zinc wheelweight. It would float on the molten surface.

Now if you're melting wheel weights,(WW), you will be in a hurry, so you crank the heat up until you see some lead melting. The bottom of the pot is OVER 787! If you have some zinc WW, and you will nowadays, they will melt along with the lead.

Best thing to do is go real slow with your FIRST smelt, slowly melt the lead, AND USE A THERMOMETER! Keep the lead at or below 700 degrees, that'll insure the bottom of the pot is NOT above 787.

Then, never completely empty the pot, always keep at least 1 inch of lead on the bottom. Then suspected zinc weights can be tossed into that melted lead @ 700 degrees, to see if they float. If they melt, then it wasn't zinc. Also, the lead left on the bottom speeds the new smelt, it's called "contact lead".

Brad, I always believed that molten lead doesn't give off fumes of metallic lead until 1200 degrees is reached. Where did you get the 825 figure?
 
Brad, I always believed that molten lead doesn't give off fumes of metallic lead until 1200 degrees is reached. Where did you get the 825 figure?

Snuffy, that is what Magma Engineering published in their casting book. I'd be tickled if that 1200 degree threshold is correct, because that would mean that you could alloy antimony in with the lead, as it would melt at just below that temp, as I recall, and you wouldn't have to use the antimony powder at the lower temps.

I remember last year when a Watlow temperature controller whacked out on one of my Mark 7 Bullet Masters and ran the temp up to 1150. I called Magma about it and they freaked out :)
 
I know what you mean, Brad. The temperature controller on my Master Caster went out last year and the molten lead was glowing red. My thermometer only goes to 1,200 degrees and the needle spun like a stop watch and pegged at 1,200*. I don't know how hot it really was, but replacing the temperature controller solved the problem, but what a pain to replace!

Fred
 
Jech: If you have a micrometer, measure the dimensions of the finished bullets and confirm they are sized correctly. Otherwise, if they pass the size and visual inspection, use 'em. If in doubt as to their lube or content, a coating of liquid ALOX lube will help out.

As to zinc:

When I start a new melt, I start the cold pot with weights that I know for sure are lead weights, not zinc. The older style, unpainted dull grey weights (especially the 2 oz or larger) are what I use to get going. I put a few handfulls of them in first, a couple of inches deep, and get the pot going on high. That way I know there's only lead. Then once it melts, I stabilize the temperature and start shoveling in the mixed weights. The zinc and iron weights and the clips will all float on the lead.

If you have some nice ones, you can do a quick check by either dropping them on a concrete surface (the zinc ones "ping", but be aware that if you drop a lead weight on the clip, it will ping too!) or by trying to cut them with side-cut pliers. Lead weights will cut, zinc ones will not. Obviously this is time consuming, which is why letting the pot sort them by melt temp is the easy way as long as you keep temps at around 700F or so.

I do dump my wheel weight buckets out on a work surface and hand sort before I put them in the pot. There's always lug nuts, tire valves, cig butts, and other trash that needs throwing away. Plus I pull out the stick on weights and separate them. Anything that I can tell is zinc or iron gets in the scrap bucket right off. It costs money to run the burner and dumping heat into a half a bucket of non-lead weights is a waste of energy. :) But if I miss a few, I don't let it sweat me.

For all that zinc WILL contaminate the alloy, in all honesty, less than 1% of zinc will not harm the alloy to the point of being unusable. By adding tin you can offset the zinc if you get a weight or two melted. It's just a shame to waste tin to remedy zinc. Zinc does harden the alloy just not the same as antimony.

Zinc's problem is it turns to a thick grey sludge- kinda like oatmeal- and it will prevent the lead from flowing well or filling out the mould details. More heat will melt it, but the melt point of zinc is right at the point where lead will start giving off poisonous oxides.

I've seen on forums and at casting demos people worry about zinc, and point to a thick grey sludge on the melt. Usually it's lead oxides and tin drossing out. Run your pot too hot even without zinc, you will oxidize the surface and unless fluxed back in, you will have a lot of dross loss.
 
well i can just say that to anyone interested i can sell lead at 75 cents a pound, thats what i was told to offer but if u want a good quantity im sure i can come to a better price for ya.
 
well i can just say that to anyone interested i can sell lead at 75 cents a pound,

What kind of lead ( pure, WW's, or alloyed ) and in what form ( original or ingot's ). Depending on what and how you have it 75 cents per pound could be a fair price or a rip off.
 
it always depends on what i have at the time. it changes every few weeks as it gets sent to the smelter every now and then. currently i have buckets of wheel weights, i have original lead plumbing, i think i even have some sheet lead not sure tho it might have went out in the last load, and i have various little ingots that someone else already melted. i get any and all types of lead. i used to get spent bullets dug from the range but had to stop accepting them when the boss at the smelter said they were too dirty and he didnt want his guys to have to mess with that much skimming. So i get all types i've even got premade bullets in the past but had no use for them so they also went to the smelter.
 
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