Finish the draw

[skidmark]

From "Irons in the Fire" comes some great advice:

HTTP://ELMTREEFORGE.BLOGSPOT.COM/
MONDAY, JANUARY 14, 2008

Finish the draw! Modified

When you're practicing drawing your sidearm, there's a natural inclination, when you bobble the grip or pull or whatever, to stop, holster, and try it again.

Stop that.

Finish the draw. No matter how badly you mess it up, finish the draw. If things go to hell and you grab, you get no chance to do it over, so get used to correcting as you go. If your grip isn't perfect, if your draw isn't quite right, if your shirt or jacket gets in the way, whether you're using a pocket carry or belt or in-the-waistband holster or shoulder rig or whatever, finish the draw. Fix it as you go, every time.

If you ever need it for real, pretty doesn't matter, perfect doesn't matter: getting the sidearm out, aimed and speaking accurately does. So get used to things going wrong. Finish the draw, every time.

Added:
In the comments Panday said something very, very true: As the old saying goes, "Slow is smooth, and smooth is fast".

Oh, yeah. I should have specified in the original post, "You start learning this slowly. Reach, get a correct grip, draw, etc.... Once you have the motions down, once you understand what you're doing and how and you start working on speed..." Beginning any new physical activity you start slow.

The most amazing pistol man I've ever personally seen was Capt. Dan Combs of the OHP, who I've mentioned before. Spooky-fast and accurate(with damn near anything). He said that when starting this he began by moving slowly, making sure he had each motion right, and once he had that locked in he began speeding up. The time I saw him he would hold a foam coffee cup on the front lip of his holster, flip it down to the ground and draw & blow it up before it hit. Then, commenting that "Trooper ( ) says that's just luck, so let's try it again," would do it again. Only this time he'd deliberately miss the first shot and blow the cup with the second, still before it hit the ground. And he did this with a S&W Model 19(polished action, no other mods) and a standard-issue Sam Brown belt & holster.

Start slow and get it right. Then, when working on speed and positions, finish the draw.

stay safe.

skidmark

 

[Sheldon J]

Damn good advice, you tend to do under stress just as you practice. There was a story a while back about a officer that was killed during a fire fight... he stopped to pick up his MT's before reloading his firearm.

 

[mercop]

Every time I do qualification you see students readjusting their grip The master grip is gained in the holster on the way to the target. I have just started my 8 yr olds sons handgun training with a Ruger MK II. I hold it out and say master grip, support hand, press out, sights, slow and steady pressure to the rear. Every magazine the same way. Cans are popping everywhere. Kids love responsive targets.

 

[chris in va]

I never really thought about doing that, thanks for the tip.

 

[Chris Rhines]

This is very bad advice, obviously coming from someone with no knowledge of modern kinesthetic training. Practicing bad technique only guarantees bad performance. Forcing a screwed-up technique will probably make it harder to get the technique consistently right.

- Chris

 

[Kor]

Chris, when it comes to building muscle memory in order to attain a high level of unconscious competence in performing a certain, finite, delineated skill or skill-set(such as bullseye shooting, or a clean draw from an IPSC holster), I would agree - practice doesn't make perfect, perfect practice is what makes perfect.

However, I believe the original poster, and the source he quoted, are not addressing the issue of skill-building exclusively, but rather are trying to blend skill-building with building mindset - specifically, in the context of developing and improving shooting/drawing skills for the possibility of an armed encounter with an aggressive, non-compliant adversary. In such a context, on any given occasion your draw, or your grip, or your stance, or your first shot or two may very well not be perfect. That being the case, if involved in a life-threatening altercation, YOU WILL NOT BE ABLE TO START OVER - thus, you should practice "finishing the draw" as described, so that, IF you should happen to fumble or bobble or even miss initially, you program yourself mentally to NOT QUIT and FINISH DOING WHAT YOU NEED TO DO TO SURVIVE.

Of course, the better you practice, the more likely you will be to perform properly/correctly in real life...but, that's not the complete answer, as "Anything that can possibly go wrong - will," and "The worst thing that can possibly happen - will." Of course, we're talking about "Murphy's Law." Perfect practice and proper training go a long way towards MINIMIZING mistakes and mishaps, but they CANNOT TOTALLY PRECLUDE such in an imperfect world.

Let's face it - "Murphy" is everywhere, and can raise his ugly head anytime. In a class, or during practice, you are able to deal with "Murphy" by starting over...in a match, "Murphy" can only cost you your trophy/money/glory...but in a fight, "Murphy" could cost you your life, so you have to program yourself to prevail in spite of "Murphy." In more than a nutshell, that is what I take from the original post - don't just cultivate your skills, cultivate your mindset and attitude.

 

[The Lone Haranguer]

However, I believe the original poster, and the source he quoted, are not addressing the issue of skill-building exclusively, but rather are trying to blend skill-building with building mindset ...

Agreed. One is no good without the other.

 

[scbair]

Excellent point. Ya know, in one of author Donald Hamilton's old "Matt Helm" novels (oh, for you folks who've seen the old movies starring Dean Martin, those were spoofs; nothing like Hamilton's very tough, gritty, professional agent), the hero reacts to a sudden perceived threat by reaching for his onlt available weapon; a conventional pocketknife . Even as he draws the knife, he realizes there is no genuine threat, but continues to open the knife, then closes and pockets it, because it's not good to get into a habit of stopping the draw.

Made sense then; makes sense now!

 

[RobTzu]

Dumb queston alert! What are "MT's"?

 

[Kor]

Dumb queston alert! What are "MT's"?

"MT's" = "empties," i.e. empty, spent brass cartridge cases; just say the letters "M" and "T" phonetically...you get the idea.

 

[ZeSpectre]

I'll add another training thought to this one.

When practicing "draw and present" don't pull the trigger every time. The one thing you do not want to do is train your muscles to "fire" whenever you draw.

Yeah, dryfire sometimes but don't make it every time.

 

[Lurper]

My only comment is:
If you don't think your mind will be able to differentiate between when you should complete the draw and when you should not, then it won't.

When you are practicing, you want to practice good technique. Focus on the right things, not the wrong. If you get a bad grip, start over. Break a technique down into its components and practice each component.

If you practice completing the draw no matter what, you are going to practice getting an improper grip continually. Instead, you should practice getting a proper grip. When the time comes for you to shoot whether in defense or competition, your mind will know the difference. Then, you shoot.

There is no such thing as "muscle memory". If there were, you could cut my arm off, put a gun in my severed hand and it would pull the trigger. You are training your mind, not your muscles and as long as you think in terms of "muscle memory" you are handicapping yourself.

The milliions of times I have dry-fired pulling the trigger every time has never led me to pull the trigger when I didn't intend to the dozens of times I have drawn on people.

The only exception is people with very little skill or training. Then, the suggestion may have some merit, but I don't think so.

 

[ZeSpectre]

The milliions of times I have dry-fired pulling the trigger every time has never led me to pull the trigger when I didn't intend to the dozens of times I have drawn on people.

Anyone else have a "meter" going off? Geko is that you?

 

[JV_2108]

Anyone else have a "meter" going off?

Millions of dry fires, and dozens of draws on people. Hmmm. , or is it

Must be in some line of work, or in a really bad neighborhood.

 

[KBintheSLC]

officer that was killed during a fire fight... he stopped to pick up his MT's before reloading his firearm.

Sounds like that officer was trying to hide something... karma is a beeatch.

 

[Sheldon J]

Sounds like that officer was trying to hide something... karma is a beeatch.

Actually he was a reloader and according to the rest of the story, every time he went to the range he would shoot, stop N pick up the MT's reload shoot... all he was doing is what he did all the time at the range, the habit was so deeply ingrained in his routine it got him killed.

 

[Lurper]

officer that was killed during a fire fight... he stopped to pick up his MT's before reloading his firearm.

What you are likelly referring to is the "Newhall Incident" from 1970 involving the CHP, where at least one of the officers killed was found to have empty brass in his pocket because he had been trained to put the empties in his pocket when he reloaded during qualification.

Anyone else have a "meter" going off? Geko is that you?

Your "meter" can go off all you'd like, there are enough people on this forum and others who know me and know it's true.

 

[ZeSpectre]

Fine, not gonna spend the time arguing with you. I'll just say that I REALLY don't want your job so I'm glad you are doing it and not me!

 

[Kor]

Ze, JV - Lurper is a professional competitive action shooter and shooting instructor, and a former Army Ranger IIRC - "millions of dry-fires" is well within the realm of probability for this particular "occupation."

KBintheSLC - before about 1970, police firearms training used to be not much more than slow-fire one-handed competitive bullseye shooting, and both new recruits in the academy and veteran officers re-qualifying were constantly instructed to(and thus became unconsciously or subconsciously accustomed to) unload their service revolvers into their open palms, and then dump the empty brass into a bucket or one of their pockets, to keep the range neat for the rangemaster. Not surprisingly, under life-and-death stress, some officers reverted back to their (inadequate/outdated) training, and either pocketed their brass, or spent a crucial few seconds looking around for a range bucket to dump their cases into. Nothing sinister about it - simply force of habit.

Bill Jordan mentioned in his book, No Second Place Winner, USBP Inspector Sam McKone, who got into a gunfight with a criminal and was later found with a pocketful of empty brass...McKone was simply so habituated to pocketing his brass, both to keep the range tidy and so that he could save his cases for handloading, that he reverted to his prior habits under stress. Fortunately for him, McKone's experience as a competitive bullseye shooter allowed him to hit his assailant at long range(100 yds +/- IIRC) and prevail.

Regarding the four CHP troopers who were killed in a gunfight just outside of Newhall, CA in 1970 - one officer, James Pence, Jr., apparently fell victim to his prior habituation and wasted precious seconds pocketing his brass and trying to load a full 6 rounds by hand, one-by-one, instead of doing a quick partial-load and resuming the fight:

Pence has been laboriously trying to reload. Though official sources deny it, some C.H.P. officers insist that Pence was found with spent casings in his trouser pocket, the legacy of range training. He has clawed six live rounds from his dump pouch (never having been told to load with a couple of rounds and close the cylinder) and has finally managed to insert the sixth cartridge. As he is starting to close the revolver, Jack Twining, who has cautiously crawled up the left side of the patrol car, now leans against the left rear door and aims his .45 automatic. “Got you now,” cries Twining triumphantly as he shoots Pence in the back of the head, killing him instantly.

http://www.pat.asn.au/uploaded/62/290206_66taspolicemarch_01.pdf

OK, perhaps "muscle memory" is an imperfect or inaccurate term/concept...maybe "habituation" is a more accurate term for what we're discussing here. That being the case, while we have to perform correct repetitions of a skill in order to perfect that skill, we cannot allow ourselves to become "slaves to perfection," if you will, to the point where anything that deviates, differs or detracts from the proper technique we've practiced causes us to revert to prior habituation at the critical moment when we need to just push through and complete the task, no matter how sloppy the execution might be.

I kinda like the aphorism attributed to the Israeli military: "'The best' is often the enemy of 'good.'" Which should NOT be interpreted to mean that we should settle for imperfection in either training or performance, but that in battle, a "good" plan/response executed in a timely manner is more effective than a "perfect" plan/response executed too late to matter.

I don't have near as much competitive experience as Lurper, but I did used to shoot IDPA once a month, every month, for about 7 years - and on a couple of occasions, I saw shooters who did not "finish a stage." Not in the sense of being disqualified for safety violations, or due to equipment failures, but in the sense that after they blew a shot or fumbled a draw from concealment, they knew they were no longer in the running to win...and so, they either gave up on the spot, or just went through the motions of finishing the course of fire, in a lackadaisical manner.

I believe that is the sort of mindset the original poster is trying to warn against, and that is the sort of mindset I try to inoculate myself against...to quote "Commander Peter Quincy Taggart"(Tim Allen) from Galaxy Quest, "Never give up - never surrender!"

 

[ZeSpectre]

Well Lurper, then publicly and without reservation or prevarication I apologize.

 

[strambo]

The end of the post did emphasize going/learning slowly. So, there really isn't an issue with practicing poorly by finishing the draw. Since you start slow, the fumbles should almost never happen. In those rare cases when you fumble...finish it. One repetition out of 100 where you fumble and finish won't mess up your "perfect practice". That mindset might save your life though.

 

[Trebor]

We all agree that you don't want to ingrain bad habits by "training them in," right?

So, the question is,

Which is the worse bad habit?

A. Completing an inproper draw (because you are now performing an incorrect technique in practice)

or

B. "Giving up" and abandoning an improper draw and restarting the draw (because you are now training yourself to restart the draw if it is less then perfect and this can damage your mindset to "always finish the fight."

Did I summarize the question accurately?

 

[Old Guy]

The first and final grip is established, right at the holster.

Tight grip, holsters grip on the pistol can not be loose, you need quite a firm hold on the pistol to stop it falling out! during violent physical activity.

You then yank it out of the holster in a up and punch motion (as soon as the muzzle clears the lip of the holster hand/barrel/forearm is in a straight line) like you were trying to stab the part of the target you want to hit, the trigger is pressed at the stop, or just prior to the stop of both hands at eye level, good strong grip on your hand gun.

The recoiling front sight tells you where the shot went, not where it is going, it ain't a scope.

New York City Police coined the phrase, "Police, don't move" spoken from behind the gun. Anyone else other than Police "Don't MOVE!" Finger on frame, or jaw frozen, finger on trigger, and press-press-press!

Dry fire, the sights should be in perfect alignment on each click!

 

[strambo]

Trebor,

I don't think there will be enough fumbled repetitions to establish a rote muscle memory habit either way. If there are, then that person is going waaaaay too fast for their skill level.

Concerning the draw (doing it properly) it is a question of proper repetition-muscle memory. Concerning finishing the draw, it is a question of mindset.

If you practice slowly, and at your level, then in theory you won't ever fumble in a controlled practice setting. In reality, there will be fumbles, but they should be very rare, not enough that it effects you muscle memory by finishing a draw 1/100 times that way.

The problem would be if you get the mindset of abandoning the draw on those rare occasions and fixing it. Then, in FoF or in a real situation you may hesitate for a moment instead of smoothly continuing (then again, you may not, who knows?)

There wouldn't be any way to prove/disprove which is better. I complete my rare fumbled draws and always get my gun in action so I'm reinforcing my mindset of finishing the fight no matter what.

 

[JKimball]

I'll have to give that a try. I usually do start over a fumbled draw.

Would you make any distinction for safety's sake if you're practicing the draw without ammunition as opposed to practicing at the range with ammunition?

I could see an argument that when you're using live ammo it is good to stop a fumbled draw and start over. (Don't want to be dropping/tossing the gun, or inadvertently hitting the trigger with a live round in the chamber.)