Finishing AR lower
- Thread starter Carl696
- Start date
- Status
Ceracoat over anodizing.
rcmodel
Member in memoriam
Hard anodizing over paint any time in my book!!
It's good enough for the military, it's good enough for me.
rc
It's good enough for the military, it's good enough for me.
rc
col.lemat
Member
2nd that.
oldandslow
Member
- Joined
- Jun 14, 2011
- Messages
- 220
carl,
Sounds like you're looking to finish a completed 80% lower. Is this right or are you looking to refinish an already-coated or anodized lower?
best wishes- oldandslow
Sounds like you're looking to finish a completed 80% lower. Is this right or are you looking to refinish an already-coated or anodized lower?
best wishes- oldandslow
oldandslow
Member
- Joined
- Jun 14, 2011
- Messages
- 220
carl,
Congrats on finishing your 80% lower.
For refinishing you can either do a do-it-yourself method or send it out to be finished. The only problem is that once it's milled your refinisher has to have an FFL to do the work and most won't take them unless they are engraved to ATF specs for serial number, owner, etc. IF you want to have it engraved with the required info there are two FFL engravers many people use- www.identmarking.com and Sureshotprecision marking. I've had poor customer service from both- Identmarking wouldn't answer simple emails and Sureshotprecision took five months to do my lowers.
Once it's engraved you can send it out for type 3 anodizing but the cost negates any cost savings you were looking at in completing your lower. The cost was around $120 not including shipping for each lower for an FFL refinisher..
Then there's the finishing option of doing it yourself with cerakote, Duracoat, etc or doing home anodizing (type 2 which is not as tough as type 3 but is fine for most firearm parts) with materials available from www.caswellplating.com. If you're only doing one lower the cost to buy the anodizing supplies is not worth the expense.
I've found that doing the engraving before milling is far easier (no FFL engraver needed as it's just a paperweight at that point) and cheaper--about $30 each. I've done the home anodizing route and am quite pleased- the lowers take a deep black color and seem to stand up to abuse well.
So you have a number of options to pursue. I've found that with completed and anodized lowers running about $60 that it's easier to just buy one. Good luck.
best wishes- oldandslow
Congrats on finishing your 80% lower.
For refinishing you can either do a do-it-yourself method or send it out to be finished. The only problem is that once it's milled your refinisher has to have an FFL to do the work and most won't take them unless they are engraved to ATF specs for serial number, owner, etc. IF you want to have it engraved with the required info there are two FFL engravers many people use- www.identmarking.com and Sureshotprecision marking. I've had poor customer service from both- Identmarking wouldn't answer simple emails and Sureshotprecision took five months to do my lowers.
Once it's engraved you can send it out for type 3 anodizing but the cost negates any cost savings you were looking at in completing your lower. The cost was around $120 not including shipping for each lower for an FFL refinisher..
Then there's the finishing option of doing it yourself with cerakote, Duracoat, etc or doing home anodizing (type 2 which is not as tough as type 3 but is fine for most firearm parts) with materials available from www.caswellplating.com. If you're only doing one lower the cost to buy the anodizing supplies is not worth the expense.
I've found that doing the engraving before milling is far easier (no FFL engraver needed as it's just a paperweight at that point) and cheaper--about $30 each. I've done the home anodizing route and am quite pleased- the lowers take a deep black color and seem to stand up to abuse well.
So you have a number of options to pursue. I've found that with completed and anodized lowers running about $60 that it's easier to just buy one. Good luck.
best wishes- oldandslow
I decided to go the home anodizing route. Got 6 qts. acid at the auto parts store for $18.00 out the door. It was hard trying to find lye, seems it is used to make Meth. The guy at the hardware store asked me what I was using it for and I told him to clean parts for anodizing.
I guess a 62 yr old 6'9" guy doesn't look like a meth maker.
Just need a couple of SS pots for the dye and boiling bath.
I just stopped in at the local Gun store. It has been closed for months.
Old owner had heart and cancer problems, passed last July.
New guy has complete AR-15 parts kit less lower for $400.00.
I think that a deal. It is not advertized on web sight though.
WWW.Mountaineerguns.com
I guess a 62 yr old 6'9" guy doesn't look like a meth maker.
Just need a couple of SS pots for the dye and boiling bath.
I just stopped in at the local Gun store. It has been closed for months.
Old owner had heart and cancer problems, passed last July.
New guy has complete AR-15 parts kit less lower for $400.00.
I think that a deal. It is not advertized on web sight though.
WWW.Mountaineerguns.com
oldandslow
Member
- Joined
- Jun 14, 2011
- Messages
- 220
Carl,
For home type 2 anodizing it's very detail oriented. You need to make sure the ar-lower surface is clean and uniform. To get a good result I finally started bead-blasting with a cheap compressor and media/bead blast gun from Grainger. The surface is a dull but uniform matte and takes the anodizing and dye well.
Make sure you wear gloves and get all the oils and fingerprints off the lower. I usually use Simple green and a toothbrush for the initial cleaning and then switch to Caswell's degreaser at 170 degrees Farenheit for a 15 minute soak.
Then after spraying clean with distilled water it's time for the short dip in the heated (about 110 degrees) lye bath (about 2-3 minutes), then spray clean again and then into the desmut tank at 120 degrees for 2-3 minutes and then spray clean again.
Then it's into the sulfuric acid anodizing bath- diluted Napa battery acid with one part acid added to 3 parts water (always acid to water and not adding water to acid). This gives you about a 9-10% sulfuric acid solution. I tap the grip screw hole all the way to the interior of the trigger pocket and then attach my positive electrical wire (titanium) with a stainless screw into the inside of the grip screw hole- this holds the upper mostly upright so you don't get pockets of air where the anodizing can't get to. I attach the negative wire to lead plate I have in the bottom of the glass anodizing jar. I usually anodize at 6 amps per square foot with a constant current rectifier for 90 minutes. You use a shorter time for 7075 alloy (25 % shorter time) than 6061 alloy. Temperature is important- usually 68-72 degrees. For type 3 anodizing you'd use low temperatures- about 32-34 degrees with higher voltage. You'll know you are getting a good anodizing current when you see small bubbles coming off the upper. And don't forget some sore of agitation to keep the acid bath dye moving (I use an aquarium pump with multiple holes in the line submerged in the tank).
After anodizing then it's time to rinse with distilled water and dye for 15-30 minutes at a temp of approximately 150 degrees, then rinse off and place in the sealing solution at 200 degrees for 15-30 minutes.
After sealing I let the lower dry and then rub on a thin coat of WD-40- it makes the dye color seem more uniform.
So home anodizing is a chore but can be done successfully with the right prep. Good luck.
best wishes- oldandslow
For home type 2 anodizing it's very detail oriented. You need to make sure the ar-lower surface is clean and uniform. To get a good result I finally started bead-blasting with a cheap compressor and media/bead blast gun from Grainger. The surface is a dull but uniform matte and takes the anodizing and dye well.
Make sure you wear gloves and get all the oils and fingerprints off the lower. I usually use Simple green and a toothbrush for the initial cleaning and then switch to Caswell's degreaser at 170 degrees Farenheit for a 15 minute soak.
Then after spraying clean with distilled water it's time for the short dip in the heated (about 110 degrees) lye bath (about 2-3 minutes), then spray clean again and then into the desmut tank at 120 degrees for 2-3 minutes and then spray clean again.
Then it's into the sulfuric acid anodizing bath- diluted Napa battery acid with one part acid added to 3 parts water (always acid to water and not adding water to acid). This gives you about a 9-10% sulfuric acid solution. I tap the grip screw hole all the way to the interior of the trigger pocket and then attach my positive electrical wire (titanium) with a stainless screw into the inside of the grip screw hole- this holds the upper mostly upright so you don't get pockets of air where the anodizing can't get to. I attach the negative wire to lead plate I have in the bottom of the glass anodizing jar. I usually anodize at 6 amps per square foot with a constant current rectifier for 90 minutes. You use a shorter time for 7075 alloy (25 % shorter time) than 6061 alloy. Temperature is important- usually 68-72 degrees. For type 3 anodizing you'd use low temperatures- about 32-34 degrees with higher voltage. You'll know you are getting a good anodizing current when you see small bubbles coming off the upper. And don't forget some sore of agitation to keep the acid bath dye moving (I use an aquarium pump with multiple holes in the line submerged in the tank).
After anodizing then it's time to rinse with distilled water and dye for 15-30 minutes at a temp of approximately 150 degrees, then rinse off and place in the sealing solution at 200 degrees for 15-30 minutes.
After sealing I let the lower dry and then rub on a thin coat of WD-40- it makes the dye color seem more uniform.
So home anodizing is a chore but can be done successfully with the right prep. Good luck.
best wishes- oldandslow
MachIVshooter
Member
Get some scrap pieces of 7075 to play with before you attack your lower. Anodizing can be tricky, and black is most difficult, will often come out purple.
Personally, I go for Cerakote, but a friend of mine is an 07/02 and a certified Cerakote guy, so it's very convenient and practically free for me. It is a superior finish, though-much tougher than anodizing.
He did my billet steel lower:
Before:
After (I should have spent more time sanding out tool marks
):
You could probably expect to pay $60-$80 for a proper Cerakote job.
P.S.
As you can see from mine, make sure you carefully sand out any blemishes. Cerakote doesn't cover them; it magnifies them!
This is his site with many other (better) photos and more detail about Cerakote:
http://www.dangerleeindustries.com/cerakote/
Last edited:
rcmodel
Member in memoriam
Yea!
That's pretty magnified!!
WTH are you talking about???
Looks pretty perfect from here!
rc
That's pretty magnified!!
WTH are you talking about???
Looks pretty perfect from here!
rc
- Joined
- Dec 19, 2002
- Messages
- 22,544
MarkIVshooter -were those indents from the mill deliberately left there? A single pass would have taken a lot of those ridges off. Of coruse, set up would be a beotch and a rotary table would be nice (but CNC even nicer).
BTW, if I were to try it, I'd leave panels like those of a C96 Broomhandle on the receiver. It would be nice to have it marked, Mauser and Oberndendorf auf Neckar on it too.
BTW, if I were to try it, I'd leave panels like those of a C96 Broomhandle on the receiver. It would be nice to have it marked, Mauser and Oberndendorf auf Neckar on it too.
MachIVshooter
Member
If you're talking about the scallops, yes, they're part of my design.
It's some of the subtle lines and 320 grit sandpaper scratches I'm talking about.
That's a Troyke DMT-12 compound cross slide table the unfinished lower is sitting on
oldandslow
Member
- Joined
- Jun 14, 2011
- Messages
- 220
carl,
The dye stage for anodizing is one step after anodizing.
When you dip the 7075 alloy lower in the lye solution (2 tablespoons per gallon water) to etch the surface for a uniform appearance this leaves a zinc contaminant on the surface which messes up the anodizing. The desmut solution dissolves the surface zinc. The desmut solution for 6065 alloy is a different solultion. Now if you beadblast the surface I don't believe you get the surface zinc contaminant and may not need to etch with lye or desmut.
A step by step tutorial is available from Caswell's plating on (oddly enough) their Australian website at www.caswellplating.com.au/LCD.pdf. Take a look and see if it helps.
best wishes- oldandslow
The dye stage for anodizing is one step after anodizing.
When you dip the 7075 alloy lower in the lye solution (2 tablespoons per gallon water) to etch the surface for a uniform appearance this leaves a zinc contaminant on the surface which messes up the anodizing. The desmut solution dissolves the surface zinc. The desmut solution for 6065 alloy is a different solultion. Now if you beadblast the surface I don't believe you get the surface zinc contaminant and may not need to etch with lye or desmut.
A step by step tutorial is available from Caswell's plating on (oddly enough) their Australian website at www.caswellplating.com.au/LCD.pdf. Take a look and see if it helps.
best wishes- oldandslow
- Status
