Fiocchi "ZP" primers (zero pollution)

[northernlightsglass]

I'm brand new to the forum. I was wondering if anyone has had any experience with loading the Fiocchi heavy-metal free primers, or experience with their sinterfire ammo (which is also heavy-metal free)?
Specifically I am wondering about longevity and storage.
The rep from Fiocchi has stated that their primers do not attract moisture, and with proper storage ("cool and dry") should last "several years". Fiocchi does not guarantee a shelf life, nor have they offered a specific number for shelf life.
The tech guy from CCI (which makes Lawman Cleanfire ammo) said their primers--which are basically the same material as Fiocchi--are so hygroscopic that they must load them asap after manufacture and then seal both primer pocket and case mouth.
Examined under a tooling microscope the Fiocchi ZP's seem to have a sealant applied to their backs. Also their patent application lists potassium nitrate with a "water barrier" which is something I've not heard of before. (KNO3 is notoriously hygroscopic.)
The CCI tech said that firing even one lead styphnate primer in a room would put traces of lead everywhere. I plan on shooting indoors this winter and have a 5 year old, so I won't consider adding any lead that might expose him.
I know that's a lot, but was curious if anyone else out there is solving these same issues.
Thanks in advance.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

Welcome to the forum.

Is there a particular reason why you want to buy "heavy metal free" primers and ammo?

 

[Sunray]

Hi. Lead poisoning really isn't an issue for most shooters. Indoors or not. It takes a great deal of long term exposure to do anything. It does happen more frequently to guys who cast indoors without enough ventilation, but for shooters it doesn't.
Wouldn't listen too closely to either of the guys you talked to. One is a salesman(they'll say anything to make a sale) and the other a poorly trained minimum wage tech support guy(phone techs are good people, but rarely get much if any training). Hence the 'load 'em fast' nonsense.
Nobody guarantees shelf life for reloading components. They have no way of knowing how or where the stuff will be stored. (You'll see guys wanting to store stuff in an unheated garage in places like DC and south of there regularly.) The "cool and dry" parts is good, but consistent temperatures and humidity is more important.

 

[John C]

I have young kids like you, and lead residue is a concern of mine. My method has been to identify possible methods of contamination and then work to abate the issue. I wash my hands with special soap after handling guns or components. I also wet tumble my brass. I take off my shoes before entering the house after going to the range. Making these changes has lowered my blood lead level from 4 mg/dl to undetectable, though, to be fair, I'm shooting less these days.

My opinion is that the main pathway for lead bio absorption is breathing the lead styphnate from priming compounds. Elemental lead isn't very bio absorbable, but lead oxides are extremely so.

When you say your going to shoot indoors this winter, do you mean at an indoor range, or your house/barn? If at a range, I wouldn't worry about it, if they have good ventilation. At your house/barn, I would go for it.

 

[northernlightsglass]

I plan on shooting indoors in a friends hearted outbuilding this winter, if I can manage it safely and work out the details. He has young kids too, and I won't use lead in a multi-use structure.
As I understand it, the lead in primers is essentially a chelate--an organo-metallic complex. Like methyl mercury, and tetra ethyl lead, these forms of heavy metals are highly absorbed and very toxic.
I'm experimenting with having loaded about 150 rounds with these primers, and am storing them in the worst place I can imagine: alternately my garage and my car in the Cleveland summer. I'll test after a few months, and then a year or so and post the results.
By the way, thanks for the welcome. I haven't read a lot here but liked what I did read.
William

 

[John C]

Or don't worry about it, and only use those primers in practice rounds for that building. Use regular primers for everything else.

Are you going to use non-lead bullets? I think if you use proper backstop material, regular lead won't be a problem. Otherwise, you will be spreading lead all over the building, as the bullets hit the backstop and splatter.

I'm interested in hearing how those primers work.

 

[northernlightsglass]

I'm basically using a sand trap--no splatter at all, with rubber both sides to contain the sand. Built a small model and put hundreds of rounds into it in 40 S&W, 10mm and .45 and nothing even kissed the back part of the trap. I was amazed at how effective sand is at stopping bullets. (And the faster the round the more effective it is.)
As soon as I start shooting the Fiocchi, I'll post about their performance.
I plan on only using the ZP indoors.

 

[spitballer]

Thanks for post - first I've heard of these primers and I'm glad I'm not the only one who cares about toxicity. Performance and storage will be the issues to watch, though. Keep us posted.

 

[Potatohead]

I was amazed at how effective sand is at stopping bullets

Thats pretty interesting. Do you mind giving us more details on how you made the trap?

 

[Blue68f100]

All the reports I here on the NT primer is that they have a limited shelf life. To me that's a big negative. I still have primers from the 70-80's. These where for some caliber that I no longer have of very limited use.

If ventilation is setup properly there is no problems with std primers in a indoor range. You actually get more lead from the base of bullet. Most jacketed RN has exposed lead bases. So unless your shooting a CMJ or plated bullet you will exposed lead.

 

[northernlightsglass]

Bullet trap

It was a pretty simple thing, based on a design some fellow had on you-tube.
I took a 2 x 8 (currently measuring 7") and cut two pieces 42" long, one 21" and one 18". I think I got it all out of a 10 footer. The 21" went across the top, and the short length down far enough so that I could cover the whole face of the box with a 21 x 21 piece of 1/2" plywood.
Then I got a piece of horsemat. I believe it was 4' x 6' and 5/8" thick. I cut two at 18" square. This rubber hasn't much stopping power, if any; it's just to contain the sand as it more or less self-seals.
I screwed on piece of the 21 x 21 plywood on the backside, with a bead of caulk to keep the sand from sifting out. I laid a piece of the horsemat down, and put a couple drywall screws to keep it put.
Then I filled the box with sand--it took about 2 fifty pound bags of play sand.
I had to remember to leave a bit of space for the second piece of horse mat.
I set that in, caulked and screwed the second piece of plywood on the top, put it on my two-wheeler and dragged it to my pickup so I could test it at the range.
As mentioned, it survived hundreds of rounds. The plywood was badly chewed up, the rubber mat rather chewed up but somewhat intact (a little bit of sand was leaking, and due to settling a gap had opened at the top which allowed rounds to go through). I could have turned it around, or added horse mat and the whole thing would have given probably at least 3000 rounds before I had to get more mat.
It was a test of the concept, rather than an attempt at a permanent fixture.
I have located a company that makes ballistic rubber [BIRCO--Black Iron Rubber Company, in Minnesota] They offer a vulcanized rubber either 1 1/2" thick or 2' thick that will outlast the horse mat (which is a "grind and glue" process rubber) by an order of magnitude.
Bear in mind that I don't shoot this with rifle, which unquestionably would shorten its life. It designed as an "aimed fire" arrangement, and at relatively close range. I am an experienced shooter, but by no means a crack shot. Your skill level would ultimately determine the size of your target/backstop. It would not be a wise choice for a first-timer out with their brand-new full-auto M14.
The Birco rubber comes in 2' x2' sheets (which is what I plan on using, likely in 1 1/2" thickness) and up to 4' x 8'.
My final version, which I would be happy to post as soon as I build it, will have a "sand feed" at the top to help eliminate the gap, as well as some arrangement at the bottom to drain the sand and remove the spent rounds without having to take the thing apart. As it will weigh around 200 pounds, it will likely have wheels (so I can drain it outside away from dwellings in case there is any lead dust from the plated ammo).
Feel free to let me know if you have any question, and I welcome your comments.
P.S. The fellow at Birco stated that "There are as many designs for bullet traps as there are stars in the sky." This one was simple, inexpensive and effective.

 

[Potatohead]

Thanks. Do you mind posting the youtube link? And i'd love to see completed pics some day. If you ever post them please PM that you did, so I wont miss it.