Fire formed brass question

[pgohil]

I'm brand new to this, so please be patient with me. I'll soon be reloading for long range precision in 6.5 creedmore and .308. If I full length resize brass every time, it will weaken the brass some, but give very consistent ammo. If I neck size only, the brass will be fire formed to this particular find chamber, and potentially be more accurate, but suffer to hard bold closure, and a few other negatives.
It seems that folks are in one camp or another.
I don't have the expert to pick one or the other, but would much rather start out with what is "more right" and understand WHY, I'm doing what I do.

Appreciate the help.

PGohil
WV

I'm at a complete loss.

 

[Walkalong]

Full length sized brass will last as long as neck sized without the issues, just don't push the shoulders way back, set up the sizer correctly and you'll be fine. You're still fire formed to the chamber.

If you are really worried about it, fire form a couple of cases and then hammer them a couple more times with full loads and send them off to get a sizer made.

But if you just set up the sizer to minimally move the shoulder back the brass will last until the primer pockets get loose or maybe have a cracked neck.

 

[lordpaxman]

If you’re brand new, you may not know how to push the shoulder back a few thousandths. There are you tube videos and write ups, but the key is to get a comparator tool, I use a Hornady, that uses your caliper to get a length reading off the shoulder of a fire formed case, and then you can dial in your FL die to set the shoulder back however much you’d like. I go 3-4 thou.
I’m not an expert, but I stayed at a Holiday inn.
PR can also be frustrating. I haven’t found the gospel where it says “if I do ...this... it’ll be best”. Right now I’m working on getting consistent neck tension and straight bullet seating. Good brass and good bullets can help eliminate a lot of issues.

 

[AJC1]

I recommend you full length size every time, so your process is the same every time. One die from the beginning to end of the brasses life. You dont say if your bolt or semi shooting, because that makes the choice even easier. You may not need to be setting back the shoulder in either method for a bolt gun in the first or second reload. Are you hunting or target shooting.

 

[FROGO207]

Spend good money on good quality brass and use bullets that are made for long distance shooting will make things better. Weighing and prepping the brass is important. You want to make every round as close to the same as booringly possible. Weighing bullets and sorting. Weing each charge. Annealing the brass at intervals to keep neck tension constant. The above mentioned neck sizing or partial length resizing help as well. Start out with quality components and make things all the same. Then add something to your process to improve things that has worked for others. Believe me, nobody was a long range ace at the start. There are many other things that will add accuracy but you have to decide if they are worth it in the long run. I have seen SERIOUSLY large sums of cash spent to try and win at that game. Remember to have fun in the process.

 

[Blue68f100]

If you don't have a comparator you can use pistol cartridge brass, poor man's way. Try to find a piece of brass that contacts the middle of the shoulder if you can. Just slip the brass over the neck and measure (base to base). Do this several times to make sure your getting accurate reading. Then run the 6.5 brass through your sizer and measure again. On a bolt gun you only need to move the shoulder back 0.001", on a simiauto 0.002"-0.003". The less you move the should back the less stress you put on the brass the longer it will last. After 2-3 firings you should anneal the necks to get maximum case life. If you using good quality brass (Lapua) you should be able to get 10 reloads before the primer pockets get loose, if your not pushing them super hard.

 

[WVRJ]

It's been my experience that neck sizing will work great as long as you're not running right up to the edge in pressure.I have a Remington 788 that I shoot CFE-223 in,and it shoots best at max powder charge.I have to full length resize after every third loading.I have a 223 model 700 with a Shilen barrel that's set up with a fairly tight chamber(headspace).It likes to shoot best with Varget a grain and a half less than maximum.I neck size for it and have proven that at least this particular rifle shoots noticeably better with the brass neck sized.I think it's one of those variables that changes from one gun to another.Also,what you're using it for can make a difference in how you should resize.I full length size everything that I hunt with except for varmint guns,then I do what I think will work the best.I'm basically lazy,so if I can get away with neck sizing,I'll do it so I don't have to clean the sizing lube off of the brass.Sometimes if I'm doing load development I'll neck size to save time because my shooting bench is in my backyard and it's handy to go in the house and load different loads until I hit a good one.

 

[pgohil]

I will be shooting mostly bolt guns. When I get far enough along, I have an AR I want to tune a load to, but that's a different ball game.
I would prefer to full length size all my brass. The way I see it it would provide consistently. I don't shoot a high volume of ammo.

Thanks for the help!

 

[Varminterror]

If I full length resize brass every time, it will weaken the brass some[.]

You’re new to this, so it is easy to be mislead.

No, properly FL sizing every time will not weaken your brass more than neck sizing only. This is a theoretical falsehood which gets passed around, but has been disproven in the real world by real shooters.

If I neck size only, the brass will be fire formed to this particular find chamber, and potentially be more accurate[.]

Also, you’ve been mislead by this. Top shooters in multiple disciplines have disproven that neck-sizing only will produce better precision than FL sizing. When either are done properly, many of us could prove no difference in group size, but critically for your long range precision pursuit, the increased consistency from loading to loading gained by FL sizing every time is a distinct advantage.

I don't have the expert[sic] to pick one or the other, but would much rather start out with what is "more right" and understand WHY, I'm doing what I do.

For long range precision rifle shooting:

Full length size every time with a bushing die without the expander ball. Set the FL die to offer ~2 thou shoulder bump, no more. If neck turning, pick your bushing diameter based on your neck thickness plus your bullet diameter minus 2-3 thousandths. If NOT neck turning, then you will need to add a mandrel expanding step after the bushing FL sizer. The bushing diameter should be chosen based on your minimum neck thickness to touch the mandrel, then the mandrel diameter chosen to leave the brass 2-3 thou smaller than the bullet diameter. For most brass, expect at least 1 thou spring back here, so a 2 thou under sized mandrel will give 3 thou under neck. I prefer seating on an arbor press for the added sensitivity and to make use of the fantastic LE Wilson chamber type seating dies, but seating in your conventional sizing press is ok also (a Sinclair Arbor press and a Wilson seating die can often be bought for lower cost than some conventional press “competition” or “match grade” seating dies alone).

You will really want to be annealing for precision rifle games. If not, keeping your brass sorted by firing will be even more critical, and you have to be very careful to feel for inconsistent seating pressure when seating bullets, otherwise you’re introducing inconsistency in your ammo. You’ll see variation from one firing to the next as brass work hardens if you are not annealing, so it really is an important step for a long range precision loader to avoid chasing your tail.

Weight sorting brass and bullets has proven to be statistically irrelevant, especially so for precision rifle games. Volume sorting brass has value for some shooters in benchrest and F-class games, but it’s really not a critical step. Weight sorting match grade bullets, in theory, can actually INCREASE the net variability between your bullet batch downrange, as there is very little (aka, almost none at all) correlation between bullet weight and ballistic coefficient consistencies within a batch (labradar Doppler BC detection is super freaking cool).

It’s really not so complicated as it seems, and your brass prep and processing really doesn’t need to be so burdensome. Using Hornady or Lapua brass and Hornady, Berger, or Sierra bullets, FL size with a bushing die, mandrel expand, seat in a Wilson die, and there won’t be anything you can say isn’t right with your process for precision rifle loading.