Deaf Smith
Member
If you are really worried about the two rounds and assess thing... then use a shotgun.
Usually with a 12 gauge, one will do.
Deaf
Usually with a 12 gauge, one will do.
Deaf
Sounds like 10mm with a compensator, or heck nice big bore revolvers might be making a comeback....
And that ladies and gents is why I'm thinking about a career change from LE. I've spent 11 years doing this job, 5 years of it as an instructor on this very topic. No where in case law does it say that there is a quantum of deadly force. Force is either deadly, or it's not. There is no "2 shots is less deadly then 3 shots" or the like. If you are justified in using deadly force you can use it, period. The only thing ridiculous policies like this do is train officers to get hurt or killed.
I'm not going to train officers on things that are going to get them killed. I'll tell my chain that if they push it here (which has started already), and if they don't like it they can find someone else to teach it. I'm perfectly fine going to a job that pays the same, without someone potentially wanting to kill me solely for the uniform I wear.
-Jenrick
Being San Francisco (used to live there) I wouldn't be surprised if lawyers started using some fanciful metric like "foot pounds of energy to BMI ratio" to demonstrate police brutality.Sounds like 10mm with a compensator, or heck nice big bore revolvers might be making a comeback....
Ridiculous to mandate something like that.... or even hint at it or whatever they are doing. Things like that are what get people killed in the line of duty. You know the bad guy is not worrying about what the court thinks of his third shot, and he darn sure is not going to hesitate to fire.... LET ALONE COUNT THE SHOTS to stay "legal."
Sounds wise. NYPD stresses to get behind cover if at all possible.I was taught to fire two rounds and then get my butt at maximum speed behind some hard cover and - THEN reassess.
Tirod said:The public is questioning whether there is even a policy in effect when this happens. Doesn't seem to be, nobody is taking the role of lead officer on the scene and we get volley fire with execution.
There are bigger problems here and complaining about a PR release to soothe the local voters doesn't mean the training is now "shoot two rounds and holster."
The real change will be having the lead officer exert control over the scene and then getting his buddies to actually obey his directives on how to handle things.
Jeff White said:That is exactly what will happen on the range. That's how it used to be when the training guidance was "two rounds and assess". Even after "checking for additional threats" was added to try to slow things down, officers had a tendency to look right, left and glace over their shoulder without actually seeing anything it became an unthinking part of training.
BSA1 said:The public are questioning the reason for 15+ shots.
BSA1 said:If these leads to better firearms training then everyone is safer.
the NYPD shooting of a homeless man who didn't respond to commands, which resulted in three bystanders being hit by the volley fire of a large number of LEO's.
BSA1 said:Since you have such strong objections to my support of shooting 2 or 3 rounds then pausing for a moment to assess the effectiveness of the shots please post data and research you have that supports your position that "it will lead to poorer training, no one will be safer."
BSA1 said:Even the Army teaches it's soldiers to use semi-automatic fire.
BSA1 said:Since you have such strong objections to my support of shooting 2 or 3 rounds then pausing for a moment to assess the effectiveness of the shots please post data and research you have that supports your position that "it will lead to poorer training, no one will be safer."
BSA1 said:It seems to me that better management of ammunition in a shooting is always a good thing. Dumping a magazine at a target in a few seconds is not a good tactic. Even the Army teaches it's soldiers to use semi-automatic fire.
The short answer is 1 round or all 52 rounds (3 mags from a 9mm full size glock in this example), the supreme court decided that so long as the deadly force threat is present there is no quanta to deadly force. Getting wrapped around round count is silly.
BSA1 said:Being politically correct does not mean it is always bad. A LEO murders someone on the street while on duty. The Department turns turtle, conducts an investigation behind closed doors and several weeks of months later announce the shooting was justified. They refuse to release details of the shooting to the public.