Firearm ownership in Germany - from CNN

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skeptical_in_Ohio

skeptical_in_Ohio

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Hi all-

I looked around and did a keyword search but didn't find this yet. My apologies if I missed an earlier post from somebody else.

How Germany approaches guns

This is an article on CNN's website, describing how two photographers documented firearm owners and ownership in Germany. One fact that I found interesting - Germany has the 4th highest rate of firearm ownership in the world. The article seemed fairly neutral in terms of the merits or lack thereof of firearm ownership, but I'm sure everybody will have a different take.

Have a great day all.
 
While I have absolutely no statistics for you, I lived in Germany (North Rhein Westfalen) for a couple of years in my 20's. In my time there, I never met a single person who owned a gun except for an old man who pulled a revolver on me in the street. He turned out to be a crazy, harmless fellow who needed some help.

While I am sure they exist, there were no gun ranges or shooting groups in any of the towns I lived in. The only firearms I saw were law enforcement.
 
I lived there when I was in the Army but I had largely gone native during that period. I knew of a lot of ranges because I shot there often. Most people kept their guns at the ranges because it was a paperwork and time nightmare to otherwise. It was different for Americans back then but the SOFA has changed and now even American service members stationed there have an almost impossible time buying or owning a gun in Germany. I have a hard time believing that theres that many gun owners in Germany though . Its an entirely different shooting culture in Germany and its more geared towards club use. You could get some incredible deals on surplus guns back in the 80's.
 
^ One of the points in the article linked in the opening post was that, although Germany has the 4th highest rate of gun ownership world-wide, current German gun enthusiasts tend to keep their hobby private because of anti-gun bias in politics and the media. Many of the people the authors interviewed were very shy because of all the negative publicity.

Apparently you could be surrounded by guns in Germany, but only see the guns in possession of the police.
 
While it is true, that there are a lot more firearms and firearm owners in Germany than one would expect, I do not know how they come up with the figure of "4th highest firearm ownership per capita". There are about 5,5 million firearms registered (which is mandatory since the 70s), which means about 7 firearms/100 people. While there are estimates of up to 20 million unregistered firearms, this still would mean about 31/100, which would put them around 15th place in guns per capita.
 
I don't know...but I do know that Central Europe is the core of sport shooting. And I shot on the range in Pforzheim, Germany - which is an eye-watering facility. Electronic targets, centralized statistics. And, of course, a bar & grill. :)
 
Yep. Spent many a day bellied up to the bar after a shooting session in Darmstadt.
Franconia is where I used to go to drool. One of the best gun shops in the world with millions of dollars worth of inventory..
 
Schwing said:
... In my time there, I never met a single person who owned a gun ...
Click to expand...

How certain can you be of that? Europeans, and Germans in particular are known to place great value their privacy. I imagine not many of them are willing to openly discuss their own personal firearm ownership, or lack thereof.

Carl N. Brown said:
^ One of the points in the article linked in the opening post was that, although Germany has the 4th highest rate of gun ownership world-wide, current German gun enthusiasts tend to keep their hobby private because of anti-gun bias in politics and the media. Many of the people the authors interviewed were very shy because of all the negative publicity.

Apparently you could be surrounded by guns in Germany, but only see the guns in possession of the police.
Click to expand...

One could make a similar claim for the U.S. I have nothing to gain by volunteering information to anyone that I own firearms. That's the sort of information that can only be harmful to me. Sure, my friends and close family know. Anyone else is on a need to know basis.... and they don't need to know.
 
I do recall when I was in Augsburg teaching a class in 2012 (for my US-based university) there was a firearm shop on the walk back from the tram station to the apartment where we stayed. It had very friendly owners - unfortunately their English was almost as bad as my German so we didn't talk much; I just admired the nice shotguns they had.
 
A small percentage of people in Germany own firearms and self defense is not considered a valid reason to need a firearm. While Germany might have one of the higher rates of per-capita gun ownership that isn't really saying much. Only 5.5 million guns in a country of 80 million people. In the U.S. there are over 350 million firearms. The U.S. is off the charts compared to other countries. I've read that Yemen, Serbia, and Switzerland are about half the U.S. rate and then it nose dives.
 
I lived in Germany the last time they won the world cup. I was quite surprised at the number of guns that were being fired into the air in celebration. They are out there, for sure, probably most are not registered.
 
Oh yeah. I was staying at a guest house in Bavaria in 1990 when they won the world cup. I heard machine gun fire throughout the night. They were playing Italy and when the last game was over a bunch of Germans dragged a fiat out into the courtyard of the hotel , flipped it upside down and lit it on fire and shot it repeatedly. Then they went into the bar and were singing Nazi war songs for hours. It was terrifying and exhilarating at the same time.
 
Well, private gun ownership in Germany is a nightmare and they keep making it worse...

- You are only allowed to buy a gun when
-- you are a member of an approved shooting club
-- you actively shoot competitions
-- the club attests that you need your personal gun for competitions
-- you attended a class and passed a test
-- you keep a log book of your shooting practice

- You have to
-- have a safe to store your guns and ammo
-- stay a member in the shooting club (or surrender/sell your guns)

- You can not
-- shoot at anything but approved paper targets (no silhouettes.... and no Tannerite...)
-- shoot any caliber which does not have an approved competition type (e.g. 500 S&W)
-- transport your guns other than in a locked container, unloaded and ammo and gun in separate containers
-- heck no, there is no such thing as concealed carry (for the normal citizen)
-- use your gun for self protection even in your home without a 99.9% risk of going to prison and being the bad guy
-- reload anything unless you attended a week long class with certification test (and storage regulations for components make it almost not worth it)
-- load more than 5 rounds in the magazine (no matter of the capacity) - it would be unlawful and typically is being watched closely at the shooting clubs

- Government/police can
-- stop by any time to check your compliance with storage and other legal requirements

With that, I am glad to live in the U.S. and am looking forward to becoming a U.S. citizen in the next 2-3 months.
 
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I was outing shooting in the woods around Aschaffenburg once with my trusty P-38 and Luger one time and a Forstmeister came riding up on his bicycle. Had a group of guys with me at the time. He stopped the bike and started yelling at me. Apparently shooting at a pizza box wasnt OK. Didnt understand a word he was saying. At some point during this exchange I put my hand on my empty luger in its holster just to tell him it was not loaded and his hands went up in the air and I'm thinking "Oh crap, I have a hostage." So, while he had this hands up We jumped in the car and took off. Yes, I was one of those Americans. Not even close to being the closest I ever got to going to jail in Germany but it was a good puckering experience.
 
TheGerman said:
Well, private gun ownership in Germany is a nightmare and they keep making it worse...

- You are only allowed to buy a gun when
-- you are a member of an approved shooting club
-- you actively shoot competitions
-- the club attests that you need your personal gun for competitions
-- you attended a class and passed a test
-- you keep a log book of your shooting practice

- You have to
-- have a safe to store your guns and ammo
-- stay a member in the shooting club (or surrender/sell your guns)

- You can not
-- shoot at anything but approved paper targets (no silhouettes.... and no Tannerite...)
-- shoot any caliber which does not have an approved competition type (e.g. 500 S&W)
-- transport your guns other than in a locked container, unloaded and ammo and gun in separate containers
-- heck no, there is no such thing as concealed carry (for the normal citizen)
-- use your gun for self protection even in your home without a 99.9% risk of going to prison and being the bad guy
-- reload anything unless you attended a week long class with certification test (and storage regulations for components make it almost not worth it)
-- load more than 5 rounds in the magazine (no matter of the capacity) - it would be unlawful and typically is being watched closely at the shooting clubs

- Government/police can
-- stop by any time to check your compliance with storage and other legal requirements

With that, I am glad to live in the U.S. and am looking forward to becoming a U.S. citizen in the next 2-3 months.
Click to expand...
Came here to write that, but I see that you've done a good job doing that already.

I haven't known about the 5 rds limit. Damn, as regards Germany, whatever topic is considered, when you think you know it all, there is always yet another VERBOT to surprise you.
 
When I was in Berlin recently I was carrying the latest American Handgunner with me on the Tram to read. I was surrounded by 4 German policemen who wanted to know if I was armed. They were nice and we ended up having a discussion about HK's but it was a bit unnerving.
 
Boy has Germany changed since the mid 1970's!!!

You could get a Weapons card by taking a class and shooting at a target about 9 inches across at 50 meters. I believe there were eight slots on the card ad you had to get another to get more guns than that.

Old Boys, that belonged to the old mans reserves could purchase one of the few allowed semi auto rifles though, an HK51/91.

In Southern Germany I can not imagine anyone was more than a half hour from a shooting house.

German military ranges typically had a rifle lane or two open to all comers at least one day a week.

HP ammo was not permitted for handguns.....and oddly half the cops in my shooting club asked me about getting some at one point or another.

Then there were "Bahnhof Waffen" as the local cops called unregistered, black market guns. Most one saw were cheap stuff, but there were a fair number of WWII guns out there.......including Mp40, PPsh41, and StG44.

One night after a heinous crime committed by a US serviceman the local villagers in the little village our missile site was near did the whole "A riot is a terrible thing...." routine complete with burning torches, pitch forks and other farm implements and Lugers, P38s various .32 autos, K98s , hunting rifles, shotguns and Dreillings and the above mentioned 'chine guns.

Interesting night that, made me see just how well gun control really worked.....not that well, except for "good" citizens.

-kBob
 
With that, I am glad to live in the U.S. and am looking forward to becoming a U.S. citizen in the next 2-3 months.
Click to expand...

Welcome friend!!! :)

A friend of mine from the Navy married a German girl and now lives in Lauffen am Neckar. His next door neighbor has a Thomas Boss double barreled shotgun, a gift from his dad and the most beautiful firearm I have ever seen, who recently went through an inspection and had to pay to upgrade the lock on his safe. I take it he is a member of a shotgun shooting group or club?
 
I wish every sensible gun owner reads this thread. This type of regulation actually sounds reasonable to a certain percentage of our population. God help us!
 
Sounds a lot like Finland, except we don't have requirement for competing/club membership. No magazine capacity or caliber or target type restrictions. Easier transportation. No police checks.

Similarities: no CCW, no home defense, no self defense, requires a "valid reason" and getting permits (especially for pistols) is made very hard for new gun owners.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Even Wikipedia shows Germany Waaaaaay down the list of per capita private firearm ownership.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Number_of_guns_per_capita_by_country

I think this article is the basis for the CNN opinion,
http://ivn.us/2012/07/25/gun-control-an-international-comparison/

and everyone knows CNN is always on the top of their game when citing facts and figures,,,
:D

This is a more interesting list of firearms per capita and gun related homicides per capita,
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/special/nation/gun-homicides-ownership/table/

We may actually be the most heavily armed and polite society in the world...
 
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