Firearm Question from a student in a Rough Area

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I know you might not care or not want to go this far but.....

In the state of Michigan, a rifle with a collapsable stock, measuring between 26 and 30 inches in length with the stock in its closed position, is considered a "pistol" by MI law and is subject to registeration......and CCW!:what:

What this means is that, if you can conceal it, you can carry this:
century_ri1216X.jpg


or this:
HK-93.jpg

or even this:
eqmilitar104116_1.jpg


Ain't life great?:evil:
 
I paid $300 flat for my Ruger P97, and I love it. Meets all your requirements, and is Ruger solid. Out of print now, but I bet you could find one without much trouble if you looked around. The P345 that replaced it may be a good choice as well; I just don't own one.
 
"...the spring may go bad?..." They don't. The only thing that damages a spring of any kind is very high heat. Hot enough to take out the temper. What can damage a spring without any heat is long term repeated flexing of the spring. The bends in a mag spring can get work hardened and get brittle. It takes a great deal of use though. Just leaving a mag loaded won't bother the spring in the least.
"...Must autos be cleaned meticulously..." Yep, but so does any firearm. Semi's are, generally, more particular about their fodder though.
After all that, you need to think in terms of how well you can shoot before you think about carrying a firearm. Anywhere. You may want to consider another form of defense if you cannot practice more regularly than every six weeks or so.
 
I'm in agreement with Sunray, surely you can find two hours a week to practice? It's a lot more important than what make/model you select.
 
H&K's Are Kinda Large

After "Collateral" came out I thought about one and handled a couple. They are definitely on the "large" size for CCW (certainly in the normal shorts and t-shirt uniform of Texas) and even the H&K "compact" is kind of a misnomer - its still pretty bug - kinda blocky :D

Still, they have an excellent reputation for reliability and accuracy. I just have a sneaking suspicion that for maybe half the price a Glock 30 would be just as good and even easier to conceal. So would the CZ flavour of .45 - at an even better price.

But I still think my nect .45 will be a SIG 220, just to add a SIG to my collection.
 
I was going to ask how hard is it to get a CCW in Detroit,never mind Michigan. I seem to remember Detroit as anti CCW but I could be wrong. Might I suggest a Kahr 40 not sure if it's sa/da but it is small easily concealed.
 
CCW laws are not too bad- you cannot have a gun around school property, but that is not an issue as I would not carry a gun to my university.

Question about LDA's as many posters have responded with this type of gun- is this gun as reliable with ammo as HKs, Sigs, etc, as I have heard that 1911 type pistols can be finicky with ammo
 
It is not about calibre. It is about frame geometry.

Think ergonomics - if it feels right, and points naturally, go for it, regardless of the rest of the hype... If a 1911A1 feels good, then that's it... Personally, they just point naturally for me. I don't even really need to worry all that much about aiming inside 10 yard or so.

Get a carry permit.
 
Boy, I'm glad I didn't go to school there!

I thought about one law school in frightening Detroit (and I loved the one semester I squeaked through at University of Michigan -- beautiful, uplifting place in many ways!) but I was too scared, so I went to school in a nice, peaceful, placid, tranquil place, instead. Why, I don't even hear gunfire most nights of the week here in North-Central Philadelphia ...

:)

For one reason pointed out by other people in this thread (school rules strictly forbid it) I don't carry here. Other reasons: 1) I live in university housing, which has its own separate version (or at least reminder) of the same policy (Streng Verboten!) 2) Though I am a resident of another county -- most of PA has relatively sane CCW permit policies, whereby CCW licenses are given by county sherrifs on a shall-issue basis -- Philadelphia doesn't approve of CCW. I wouldn't want to go through the hassle of establishing that my school-year bunk isn't the home where my bills arrive, where I vote (or, this year, chose not to vote), etc.

Back to the topic at hand: Detroit Student -- if you do end up getting a handgun (and it sounds like you're serious about it, which is appropriate), there's one minor thing I've found to really like about my XD (vs. quite a lot of other guns) which is also a positive attribute for Glocks and certain others: a captive mainspring. That is, rather than an open-ended spring that flops about, a cohesive unit that's easy to squeeze back into place when you're done cleaning.

I find the site a little wobbly, but try the "field strip" view on this page to see what I mean:

http://www.xd-hs2000.com/disassembly/disassembly.html

Since I'm not gifted with great manual dexterity, this means more to me than it might to some people. I really like that this gun (and again, Glocks and some others are similar) has a dead-easy breakdown process for cleaning.

Mind the rules and regulations, though -- it would be a shame to get into serious legal trouble just because you'd like to be able to defend yourself in a rough neighborhood.

Cheers,

timothy
 
I second the Kahr K40, My wife has one, It's small, comfortable, and shoots a reasonable group for self defense. The bead blasted stainless looks good and the weight keeps the recoil from being too snappy.
Kahr is DAO with an enclosed hammer. No safety.
Round in the chamber, squeeze trigger it goes bang.

I think the only weakness is the 6 round mag. I expect that in the 1% of self defense situations where shots have to be fired you should have the job done in the first three or four rounds, If six isn't enough, a couple more probably won't make much difference.

You said DA/SA and the first that came to mind is the P220. But it's a little big for CCW unless under a coat.
 
I have one semi auto that I carry that you might look at a S&W 4513tsw. The model is not currently in production but I believe it is basicly the same as their 645 model. Only six rounds but for me totally reliable and very accurate, I also like the S&W Chiefs Special even it is a smaller gun.
A Utah permit is one of the best, but Michigan will not honor any non-resident permits no matter what state it is from.
Jim.
 
SW 4506 and 4516 are seeming to go pretty cheap now.

As for springs, I believe they wear out from compression-decompression, the spring is designed to not be at metal fatigue simply by filling the mag.

Jesse
 
I was too scared, so I went to school in a nice, peaceful, placid, tranquil place, instead. Why, I don't even hear gunfire most nights of the week here in North-Central Philadelphia ...
Click to expand...

:D Temple or La Salle??? North Central, I'm thinking your in Temple. Both are good schools, Both are in the WORSE neighborhood in Philly. Temple has white noise machines to drown out the gunfire. Temple spends more money on security than some small towns. The classic Philly "Cops" episode where the naked Black man is running around a Barber shop, happened 1 block from Campus. By the way that guy was hopped up on PCP had a bullet hole in his chest, he died at the hospital. Been to Detroit and it is as bad as North Philly. Be very carefully off campus.
 
Detroit

Hi DS,

I work in Detroit (contractor) and have had some real bad experiences there that put me into the defense set of mind…I was attacked in one of my properties there by a crack addict…There are a lot of them in Detroit…

The first thing I did was take self-defense classes (I had taken a mix of MA through the YMCA for about 7 years when I was a kid)…I think it helped to pull me through the attack…The police force in Detroit leaves a lot to be desired…

I then took handgun training (a lot more since then) and got my CCW…It takes anywhere between 3-6 month’s to get one in WACO so you may want to start on that now if you don’t already have one…

In the meantime buy some FOX pepper spray and always have it on you, it is a great deterrent…

I have used it numerous times on dogs, drunks, druggies and have nothing but the best of things to say about it…

I carry either a Glock 30, Glock 21, H & K USP or a 1911, all are .45 cal and are great guns…I often carry more than one gun, depending on where I am there…I would also get a good pocket knife and training in how to be most effective with the spray and the knife…
Detroit is a tough city and it is not going to get any better soon…

Do you actually live on campus? If so, you can’t have a gun on school property…You can get a lot of useful info from the MSP website…

Getting a fair trial in Detroit could be a real problem if you are involved in a shooting…
 
OK If price is really not an object and you are not goingt o shoot much and you want max. reliability here is the revolver for you.

http://www.smith-wesson.com/webapp/...selected=tech&isFirearm=Y&parent_category_rn=

That link may not work it looks too long - it is the Smith & Wesson 325PD a .45 acp revolver 6 shot, 21.5 oz unloaded - this should work every time - if I were you I would get the hammer bobbed for pocket carry.

My 2 cents.
 
Thank you for your responses!

Yes, I am a student, but I live in Downtown detroit. Carrying a gun on campus is not an issue because I feel safe there and it is illegal.

If one could kindly respond to the question- are 1911 pistols (like the LDA) as ammo-friendly and as reliable as Sig or HK pistols? or more so?

I do have a budget- would like to spend less than 900 dollars, and as for revolvers I don't shoot them as well. Regarding Glock pistols, are they as reliable as a good sig/HK

Thank you for your responses- I know I ask alot of questions but know that I respect all of you enough to trust me with a pistol that may save my life.
 
Hey Detroit shooter - you can find the Smith for less than MSRP or you could look for a Taurus model 455 in .45acp - I know you say you don't shoot revolvers well but you can easily learn and for SD the range may be so close it doesn't matter.

My Colt Commander never failed, but my Para Ordinance P12 Fails to Feed all the time - I think its the springs in the factory mags - I'm going to change them out with wolf springs. There are a lot of 1911s some are better than others. I don't think you can definetly say that 1911s are not as reliable as Sig & HKs but Sig and HK are usually very reliable and not all 1911s are as good as a Sig or HK.

You say you are not going to shoot alot - to me this means NO semi-auto pistol is reliable enough because it may not get broken in, checked out with the ammo you are carrying, etc. But hey its just my opinion and only worth what you paid for it (zero). As I get older I seem to like revolvers more and more?

Good luck in Detroit and let us know what you get.
 
S&W CS45: it's light (23oz), extremely accurate and will eat anything you feed it, feels good in your hand and carries really well...and you get SW lifetime warrentee.

cs45.jpg
 
If one could kindly respond to the question- are 1911 pistols (like the LDA) as ammo-friendly and as reliable as Sig or HK pistols? or more so?
Click to expand...

Some are, some aren't. There are things one can do/have done to them that will help, if you do get one that's sensitive, though.

As to your original question, though, the "best" one is the one that fits your hand best, that you can handle, operate, and shoot the best in as many different situations as possible. And the only way to find it is to try a bunch of them out.
 
.45 guns other than 1911's

Glock
http://www.glock.com/_45.htm
My friend has a Glock 21, its big, its heavy (for a poly gun), but it carries 13 rounds of 45. There is also the smaller Glock 30 and 36.

Springfield Armory XD
http://www.springfield-armory.com/prod-xdpstl-45acp.shtml
The new kid on the block, getting lots of good reviews.

CZ-97b
http://www.cz-usa.com/product_detail.php?id=43
All steel, built like a tank. CZ pistols are known for their reliability.

Magnum Research, IMI Baby Eagle .45
http://www.magnumresearch.com/Expand.asp?ProductCode=MR4500RS
Internals copied from the CZ-75, just little shorter barrel and different look. Just as reliable as the CZ.

There are plenty other .45 handguns out there, these are just 4 that I have had experience with. All 4 are from brands with reputations for reliability and durability.

Before you buy a gun, be sure and try out as many different ones as you can. See which ones fit your hand, which ones you could conceal, and which ones you can shoot well. Go to ranges that rent guns, or to busy ranges and ask to shoot other peoples' guns. If you are dead set on a .45, you might consider buying a .22 or .9mm to practice with. 45acp is expensive and the only way to become a good shot is to shoot a gun (any gun) and do it a lot.
 
Glock is just as reliable if not moreso than any gun on the market. a good holster and trigger discipline will make the gun a very safe one too.

As far as the LDA 1911, Ive heard that they aren't as dependable out of the box. But why buy a 1911 pistol thats not Single Action? The trigger is one of the things that drive people to them in groves (another reason is that people want a "1911")

If its carry only and not going to the range often, the lighter the better. But all have their own characteristics that some see as good or bad.

Glock (safety on the trigger)
HK USP (absolutly worst mag release ive ever felt *for me*)
XD 45 (grip safety, I dont know much about it)
Sig 220 (?)
Taurus Mill / 24/7 (?)
1911 (cocked & locked)
SW DA (I like them)

You really need to "try on a few"

Jesse

EDIT: also if you are worried abou HP reliability you could use Pow-R-BAll.
 
A couple things...

You may feel size is no issue because you can carry under your coat, but what are you going to do come spring and summer? If it is a first (or only) gun and you want a general duty/range gun as well as carry gun I would suggest looking for one of the mid-sized guns out there instead of a full-sized service pistol or a small subcompact CCW piece.

Also, why .45? You would greatly open your options if you considered the .40 and 9mm and with the right ammo they are near .45 effectiveness (the .40 may be just as effective).

A few people have suggested the Ruger KP345. I have one, and I would definately NOT suggest one for home defense or carry. Mine has had a lot of trouble, and I have not done any of the things that you are not supposed to do with this pistol (things which would be fine on any other gun). This gun is definately not Ruger's best effort.

I would consider the Taurus Milennium Pro series. I love my PT140 M. Pro- 100% reliable, decent accuracy, decent trigger (after 750-800 rounds and many dry fires), and very well made. I paid about $350 out the door for mine. The only problem based on what you are asking for, the new ones are "SA/DA" so you would need to use the safety (they start in SA mode), but if you can find the prior generation (some may still be on dealers' shelves) they are DAO.

If you are willing to consider 9mm or .40S&W, CZ makes a decent gun.

I love my SIGs. The 229 in .40S&W is about the perfect size for an only gun- fairly small and light for carry yet big and heavy enough for comfortable range use. The 220 in .45ACP is only a little bit bigger (closer to my 9mm 226 which is probably barely CCWable). The new 220 Carry is probably closer to the size of my 229.

Also, out of full-sized and compact .45s the best for carry are probably the 1911s. They are incredibly narrow, get one in aluminum and the weight won't be bad either. The 5" full-size is one of the only true full-sized service pistols that would probably be a good carry gun (if weight isn't a big deal, or get one in aluminum). The 4" Commander size is near perfect. They are SA, but if you don't want to get used to the SA trigger and safety, you can always go with the Para Ordinance which uses the 1911 style but is a DAO gun.

I hear good things about the XD in .45, if it fits your hand you may want to consider it.

The S&W autos are good guns, but used they don't usually command high prices. A used S&W pistol may just be a best buy among the possibilities.
 
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