Firearm Question from a student in a Rough Area

[Huddog]

Well it seems you have been recommended just about every .45 available. As well as some that aren't .45's. The key thing is to make time to practise, I know grad school is time consuming but you gotta make it through it for it to mean anything and the ergonomics of the weapon and you should be foremost in your decision process. I don't know about Detroit but I imagine you could find a range where you could try a few different styles to see what you like.

Good luck and good decisions.

 

[SIRVEYR666]

I'll +1 on The Firing Line in Westland, MI. They know there stuff and have always been very good to me. Their self defense classes are top notch as well as their service in general.

I'll also +1 on the Detroit sucks. It's not a fun place to be at night , or during the day for that matter. The Joe is about the only place I feel kinda safe, but that's only after I get inside.

 

[Glockfan.45]

Glock 30 for CC. Reliable, accurate, 10 round capacity, DA/SA (well sort of ), and springs wearing out in a loaded magazine is a myth. If money is no object you may want to look at the H&K USP. Evil Monkey lol on the under folder AK. I can imagine the look on a BG's face when he pulls a knife and you pull an AK.

 

[Steve Wynn]

Don't become a paranoid and worry so much about the large capacity guns or trying to carry extra clips. The probability of needing more than 5-6 rounds is very remote, it's doubtful any legally carrying citizen has ever needed more than a round or two. If you really think you need to carry extra clips, spend the time on the range and make those first shots count.

 

[.357 magnum]

Springfield XD .45 acp

I have both the service model [4inch barrel] and the tactical [5inch] The service model is better for carry. A very accurate gun for an auto-loader. Extremely reliable. I should keep better track, but I am well over 4,000 rounds in the service model and not a hiccup. I agree with the .45 as a great choice for self-defense. Recoil is minimal [my .40's kick more] and if you use Federal 230gr hydra-shoks you have a hand cannon. Capacity is no worry here, it holds 13 in the mag. Really I get my .45 ammo for just a little over what I pay for .40 ammo at both wally world and local gun stores. [stick to the chains they can sell ammo for less most of the time]. I can give you great advice on what kind of gun. As for when to use it, check with local law enforcement for classes.

The best to you and yours!

 

[Builder]

DS, lots of good answers and advice here…

I own a S & W .357 I have had for 25-30 years it was the only handgun I owned until I bought a Glock in 2002 after I had been attacked…I now own quite a few different handguns…

In the heat of the moment a 1911 may work against you only because you do need to practice with it a lot before you carry it (safety)…I love the 1911 and had shot my Dad’s some before he gave it to me a few years ago (GI 1911)… I also own a Springfield Mil-Spec and an inexpensive Armscor that I bought as a project gun…I have had reliability packages done on the 1911’s, I also use Chip McCormick and Wilson magazines and they function flawlessly…

Sigs are excellent guns but they have a high bore axis (not a big deal for most) H & K’s are outstanding guns too, if you are not going to shoot a lot you want to keep it real simple like a revolver or a Glock…I have heaped a lot of abuse on my Glocks and revolver with nary a FTF…Glock are relatively cheap I have never paid more than $500 for a Glock my H & K was around $700 my 1911 Springfield was under $500, the Armscor under $300 (great gun BTW for a cheap 1911).

Check here for prices: http://www.cdnninvestments.com/
Lots of options in their online catalog…

 

[Geronimo45]

"it's doubtful any legally carrying citizen has ever needed more than a round or two. If you really think you need to carry extra clips, spend the time on the range and make those first shots count."
You've clearly never heard of zombies.

 

[Zen21Tao]

When it comes to .45acp I have 2 1911s (a Norinco and Springfield), a Sig P245, an HK USP, and a Para Ordnance Tac-Four LDA. For a quality SA/DA .45, Sigs, HK and the Para LDA are all great guns with their own unique benefits:

Sig:
A Sig is a phenomenal handgun. It doesn't have any safties to worry about and has a manual decocker. For simplicity the Sig is the best choice. Just point and pull trigger. Also, the P245 version is a single stack which means less printing when carried under a light layer of clothing. THe main drawback is the mag capacity. With the single stack you get 5+1 rounds of ammo. A benefit though is that the 245 accepts 220 mags a well so you can carry 8rnd or 10rnd spare mags. You can also opt for the P220 and have an 8+1 Sig.

HK USP:
Also a great handgun. It also has a manual decocker but also has a safety that allows you to carry it "cocked and locked" if you choose to do so. It also has a great magazine capacity. Standards mags are 10+1 and high cap mags are 12+1 rounds. On the negative side is that it is a double stack and will print much more than a single stack.

The Para Ordnance LDA:
A great gun as well. The main benefit is the consistancy of the trigger. The first shot has the same trigger pull as each additional shot. On normal sa/da guns you go from a long trigger pull on first shot to a shorter trigger pull on each additional shot. Para also offers the LDA version in a single stack CCW version the a double stack Tac-4 version. As for durability, the Para is the least durable of the three. But, with the extremely high par set by HK and Sig that doesn't mean Paras aren't well made and durable in their own right.

Any of these three guns should fit you needs. I wound recommend you visit a gunstore and hold each. Go with the one that feels best to you.

 

[sixgunner455]

Originally posted by Steve Wynn:

"Don't become a paranoid and worry so much about the large capacity guns or trying to carry extra clips. The probability of needing more than 5-6 rounds is very remote, it's doubtful any legally carrying citizen has ever needed more than a round or two. If you really think you need to carry extra clips, spend the time on the range and make those first shots count."



There is no such thing as too much ammunition. When we talk ammo, there is some ammo, there is more ammo, and there is not enough.

The capacity of your carry gun shouldn't overly concern you, but you should carry at least one reload, IMHO. Also in the opinion of a lot of people who have more experience fighting with guns than I do.

For example, a good man named Lance Thomas needed a lot more than "a round or two" on more than one occaision:

http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0BTT/is_156_26/ai_82533205

Other people I've known personally have needed more, and that more than once, as well. Some needed more than all the reloads that they had with them.

Don't expect your pistol to work. Expect your first shot to fail or miss, and the next. Keep shooting til the threat isn't threatening you anymore. If that means that you shoot to slide lock, reload, and get back to business, well, it would kind of be unfortunate if you deliberately chose not to carry a spare gun and/or some spare ammo.

Having a gun, any gun, puts you ahead of the powercurve. Get a good one, and have a reload ready to go.

If we're playing odds and averages, you'll live out your days never having needed either of them. I've been through two active wars, and never needed to fire a shot, in spite of going some very scary places. Believe you me, I carried more than the ammo in my guns. A lot more. And if I had to go back today, I'd carry as much as I could get my hands on.

As a citizen living in small town America, I frequently just carry a 642. But I always have a reload or two with me, and when I'm not at work, I usually have a much bigger pistol. With a reload. Especially when I go to the city.

If you ever do get into a fight, you won't be sorry that you brought more ammo than you needed to finish it. If you didn't bring enough, well...

Carry a good flashlight, too. They're small, and very useful on a daily basis, as is a good pocketknife. It's called being prepared, not being paranoid.

 

[Zen21Tao]

There is no such thing as too much ammunition. When we talk ammo, there is some ammo, there is more ammo, and there is not enough.

The capacity of your carry gun shouldn't overly concern you, but you should carry at least one reload, IMHO. Also in the opinion of a lot of people who have more experience fighting with guns than I do.

I would say that there certainly IS too much ammo. That point is reached when a person develops the mentality that they are safer simply becasue they can just blast away at the object. I know this sounds funny but I have both heard stories and observed first hand people like this. They think the benefit of "high capacity" is that you don't actually have to aim, you just point and unload. There are even people that fall into his thinking without even realizing it.

 

[Builder]

I don’t think that living in Detroit or any other major metropolitan you want to limit yourself on ammo…There are a lot of gangs in Motown and they don’t come at you one at a time, in fact they come at you in multiples if they do decide to jack you up…

There are a lot of roving bangers just looking for an opportunity, don’t be one…

Any of the self defensive shooting courses I have taken all recommend that you carry at least one spare mag or a BUG…
I strongly recommend getting some training in self-defense, gun training, knife training, etc…

Most scenarios can be controlled by learning how to handle yourself…You would be amazed at the power of verbal commands and the use of pepper spray…But gangs are a different thing all together and you have a lot of them in your general area…

If you have a FTF with a mag you may need to drop the mag and pop a new one in, pronto and you can’t do that if you don’t have a spare…

As stated above Firing Line in Westland is a great range, lot of good people in there…

 

[Sawdust]

Pocket carry a Kahr in .40 cal...

Sawdust

 

[JLStorm]

I know you probably got more responses than you had wanted lol, but here is my opinion. I currently carry an HK USP 45 full size, and let me tell you it is a dream to shoot. I have primarily shot 45acp throughout my life mostly glock, 1911 variants, and now HK. The problem is the heavier the gun, the larger the frame the harder it is to conceal. The plus is the heavier the gun and larger the frame the more reduced recoil.

I think your main concern as a student needs to be concealment, especially with all the school shootings etc. In Michigan you are not allowed to carry on school property other than in the parking lot. I do not know if you plan to follow this law or not, and it is absolutely none of my business. But whether in school or on the street concealment is #1. Not only because you will constantly be thinking that you are printing for a while, which may actually draw more attention to you, but also because if someone sees a gun, rather than stay away, some morons will try to beat you and then steal it.

I would make sure the gun you choose is a single stack and is something you could put in an ankle or pocket holster if you had too. Think about your dress in summer as well as winter. If you wear shorts without a belt, or t shirts that are light weight many IWB guns wont work, either because they are making your shorts fall down in one area, or the shirt is so lightweight and fitting that it catches on the butt of the gun making a visible outline. The downside with a handgun that offers more concealment is reliability from reduced slide travel giving the brass less time to clear the ejection port, as well as increased recoild from the lighter weight.

I really cant give you specific models of guns because my favorite small gun is a smith and wesson 340pd which is chambered in .357 magnum weighs 12 ounces and can fit comfortably in a jeans pocket or ankle holster. I really couldnt imagine not having a gun this size for times when I need to conceal a weapon or have restrictive clothing on.

Im sorry I couldnt be more help, but hopefully some of these other members have given you more specific information for gun models.

 

[Derek Zeanah]

I tend to fire automatics better than I do revolvers, and I prefer an automatic in 45 caliber. Please recommend to me the best 45 Auto, regardless of price, as I consider my personal defense weapon to be an investment. Reliability, of course, is number one.

Well, a good 1911 is pretty easy to conceal and shoot well. You're uncomfortable with cocked-and-locked carry, but you should know that it's safe -- try to make a 1911 fire "accidentally," then do the same with a Sig 220 and a Glock 21.

Having said that, 1911's tend to be heavy, and a blued finish is tougher to keep maintained that some other choices (I used to carry a blued Officer's ACP, and had this issue). Glocks come in concealable sizes, go bang reliably, are finished in a way that makes them less vulnerable to sweat, and are reasonably cheap. The fact that they're soulless tools apparently designed by an engineer who didn't like guns shouldn't sway you -- they do their job (throwing projectiles downrange reliably and accurately) well. Sigs and H&K both deserve the following that they've got, and some of the newer non-Glock striker-fired weapons seem like very good choices as well.

When it comes down to it, actual pistol choice doesn't matter that much -- I don't know that there's been a bad suggestion here yet, and there've been a lot of them. If it was me, I'd look at a 1911 or a S&W J-frame revolver (the latter because it's so easy to conceal it in a pocket). A revolver in a K- or L-frame size would work well also, but since you're new to the whole gun thing it's likely you'll prefer a self-loader for reasons you might not find as valid a decade from now.

So go with what you like. I've owned/carried 2 Sigs, 4-5 Glocks, a handful of 1911's, and a pile of revolvers. I'm growing to like the revolvers and 1911s more and more, and it seems most people tend toward that direction over time as well. However, it seems to take some experience before you really appreciate them for what they are/aren't.

One possibly flame-worthy comment: note that Glocks seem more prone to negligent discharges in poorly trained hands than other sorts of weapons (I've never heard of a cop shooting himself in the leg twice in a row with a revolver while trying to hoster his weapon, for instance.) If you're leaning in that direction (and it's certainly a valid path to choose), then please make sure you're a stickler for the 4 rules. Glocks are totally safe, but they always go bang if there's a round in the chamber and you pull the trigger. That's kind of the point.

In addition another question- Should ammo be removed from clips after carrying for a day or 2, as the spring may go bad? I have heard different things- thank you for your input.

No. Exercising springs wears them -- being set in one position (empty or full mag) doesn't really do anything to them.

Re: school carry. I used to live in a really bad neighborhood in Birmingham -- the nearest store was nicknamed the "murder mart" because a few years earlier a girl was killed there for her purse while trying to buy ingredients to make her buyfriend a cake. Our security was good and well-armed, and the policy on school was "guns are allowed, but must be stored with Security. You're not allowed to keep ammo in your dorm room or vehicle, and Security won't store it for you."

Doesn't mean that policy was abided by all students, or that security cared much provided the student in question was responsible. Note though, that concealed means concealed.

 

[david_the_greek]

do you ever go to topgun shooting? Its in Taylor near the gibraltor. Its basically 20-25 minutes from dowtown. Last time I was there they had a decent selection of rental pistols. or you could go to double action (13 and dequinder I think) and they have a good rental section but they are EXPENSIVE when it coems to rental and range time. I'm going to comment on the cocked and locked like a few others have. The glock trigger is the safety on the gun. on a 1911 you have a grip safety and the lever. You've probably thought of that already but I just thought I'd put it out there to feel good about my observation skills.

 

[gunsmith]

.9mm glock

will be fine.
.45 to expensive for a student.
practice the four rules!

 

[Waitone]

You can always expect uniformity of opinion on THR

Contrarian Advice
--Know your state laws inside out
--Know your university rules inside out
--Get professional training in self-defense, then get handgun training. And no, they are not the same.
--Invest the time upfront and you're good to go. You are in a tough situation and the gov't has helpfully restricted some of your options.
--Practice does not make perfect; perfect practice makes perfect. Get professional training and use it.