Firearm Registration

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Bottom line is that there is no valid reason to have a registry except as a prelude to banning and confiscation. A registry does not solve crimes. It does not recover stolen guns. Its only purpose is to facilitate the erosion of your rights. That's why it's bad.
 
OP,

Read up on how registration worked out for the victims of hurricane Katrina during the aftermath. After seeing the horror stories, will you still want the government keeping track of you and your guns?
 
Gouranga said:
Well, with the federal form you fill out, all you need is a gov't employee and database software and you have a pretty good start at a national registry.

And that WOULD be a valid concern, except that the federal form you fill out goes nowhere. It sits in the dealer's file cabinet. (Unless he goes out of business.) Kind of hard to have a database of information you aren't actually collecting.
 
In Canada they made it so that in order to posess a gun you must also posess a valid registration slip for it, it is illegal otherwise. This basically criminalizes gun ownership and puts it under close scrutiny. If the classification of your gun changes in the future to something that is "prohibited" you lose. Also we must take the registration paper with us everytime we use the gun. If the registration is revoked, sorry! If you want to transfer it to someone else it has to be between 9-5 on a weekday and you have to call it in. And for handguns there is a mandatory "authorization to transport" which is basically a permission slip that says you're allowed to take it directly to the range and back to your residence only.

EDIT: registration has also created a massive 2 billion dollar bureacracy.
 
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Firearms registration has NO purpose beyond facilitating future bans and confiscations.

Chicago required registration of handguns.
They wouldn't allow new registrations, except by cops and city council members.

Instant de facto ban.
 
...Can someone tell me why we're against it again?
I know its bad and evil and all that jazz, but why again? All I've read in the news is that it'd be good for us, and how if it was ever stolen, used in a crime, blah blah.

But, I did search (Google) and nothing came up relevant. Can someone clarify this for me

Where do I begin? Well for starters EVERY gun grab in history committed by a totalitarian government has started with a national gun registration. Once they know who you are and what you have they can decide what they want to do and how. Keep them in the dark and it doesn't become an issue. It's also none of their business. Maybe I should also register my knives, and other tools that have deadly potential.

Gun registries are proven NOT to inhibit crime. But, can lead to you being blamed for one if a registered gun falls into the wrong hands.

Even if your gun is stolen a registry will most likely not help retrieve it, as the first thing many criminals do is remove the serial number using a file or acid, or both. Telling the police your gun was stolen and giving them the serial number is still a good idea though. I could go on and on but I think you get the idea. They only help Big Brother control the masses, they are not in the "masses" best interest.

I respect you for coming here and asking instead of just believing everything the media spoon feeds over the teli.

Sam1911 said:
And that WOULD be a valid concern, except that the federal form you fill out goes nowhere. It sits in the dealer's file cabinet. (Unless he goes out of business.) Kind of hard to have a database of information you aren't actually collecting.

I've always wondered if the police could use that to track down the original owner by hitting up all the local gun shops until they get a match. It sounds arduous, but possible, and would only tell the original owner, not the one who necessarily committed the crime.
 
It's a whole lot easier for .gov to go straight to the resistence when they try the "knock & awe" approach to gun control.
 
I've always wondered if the police could use that to track down the original owner by hitting up all the local gun shops until they get a match. It sounds arduous, but possible, and would only tell the original owner, not the one who necessarily committed the crime.

If the police recover a gun used in a crime, they can contact the manufacturer and the manufacturer will tell them what dealer they shipped that gun to when it was first sold and when it was shipped.

The PD then contacts that dealer and asks the dealer to look up his records from that year, located that sale sale, and give them the name of the original owner.

Then they contact the original owner.

Often the original buyer has moved out of the state and is no longer able to be located at all.

However, if he or she is still around, that owner may be able to tell them that they sold that gun to another dealer, in which case the PD then goes to that dealer and continues the search.

Or the owner says, "I sold it via a legal private-party sale and I do/don't remember the buyer's name." There, the trail usually goes cold.

And the older the gun gets, the more likely it is to have passed through several hands -- and it only takes one face-to-face sale, trade, gifting, etc., for the trail to be irretrievably broken.

But even ignoring private sales, if you buy a gun and later sell it to some other dealer, there is no link-up between those two bits of information in two different dealers' bound books and file cabinets -- except for information in your head regarding that connection. No master database somehow connects all those dots.

So you can believe that the odds of a gun being "traceable" are pretty slim.

(Yes, some states do have registration and databases. But federally, no.)
 
""If your gun is stole you report it, when they catch the guy they have your report"".


So my gun has to be registered in order to report it stolen??? How so???

In MI we have handgun registyration and I dont believe it has ever proven anything and no one seems to care!!

Hitler loved registration!!
 
Sam-post #33

So I report my gun stolen. They then contact me and forget all previous owners..



Someone early on said to register bicycles.

Same thing. The stolen bike is found and the real owner is contacted..


What am I missing??
 
Same thing. The stolen bike is found and the real owner is contacted..


What am I missing??

Just look at the people who push for registration. Do they seem motivated to get stolen guns back into the hand of their rightful owners, or do they seem like the kind who wish you couldn't own a gun? Figure that one out and you'll have your answer.
 
langenc,

I'm not sure I understand your question.

If you report a gun as stolen the police register that serial number with NCIC (and possibly your state's stolen gun records as well) and if it ever turns up in an arrest, drug bust, confiscation, or other official interaction, they'll have a way to contact you and (sometimes) get your gun back to you. Previous owners wouldn't be linked to that record -- only the person who reported it stolen.

This is a (for the sake of argument) voluntary registration -- which only takes place when the object is removed from your ownership against your will -- with the purpose of both eliminating you from being linked to crimes which may be committed with that gun in the future, and also giving you some slim hope of getting it back.

So my gun has to be registered in order to report it stolen??? How so???
I don't think you're seeing this clearly. WHEN your gun is stolen, it is THEN registered with NCIC.

Same thing is done with stolen vehicles, boats, even license plates.
 
Oh, and if you get that said gun back, and say for some reason, (like it's buggered to hell and rust up cause of the 'careful' police storage) send it to the manufacture via a FFL, when you go to reclaim it , and the feds process the transaction, voila, it's gone again, stolen gun don'cha know....
 
I don't think registration will help with getting it back, thats not the reason for the system. Registration is just a temporary permission slip that can be revoked at any time!
 
registering your guns is a mistake, i have always been torn by weather or not to comply if it were enacted. should i register or risk breaking the law. i generally believe in following the law, but i have always placed more value on doing whats right. hopefully i never have to make that decision. i guess my revolvers are registered to me already :uhoh:
 
registering your guns is a mistake, i have always been torn by weather or not to comply if it were enacted.
How do you feel about registering your car? That is a requirement in every state that I know of, yet I'm guessing most people commenting in this thread don't care about that. I have known of only one person willing to stand against the law and refuse to register his car on the grounds that it's unconstitutional.

Now let's take this to the next level. How many of you who live in states that require a permit to carry are refusing to get one and are carrying anyway? With a permit, you're in some database as being a gun owner, so I don't see how that's a whole lot better than registering your guns.

I don't agree with the registration myself (for guns or cars), so really I'm playing devil's advocate. Just curious where people stand.
 
Car registration I don't have much of a problem with because that is mainly for the purpose of taxation..well I don't really like that either...but it is not a nefarious as confiscation, which is usually the purpose of gun registration...well that and tightly controlling what guns you can own and how many.

Oh, and if you get that said gun back, and say for some reason, (like it's buggered to hell and rust up cause of the 'careful' police storage) send it to the manufacture via a FFL, when you go to reclaim it , and the feds process the transaction, voila, it's gone again, stolen gun don'cha know....

I'm not sure I follow. What you are saying is that if you get your stolen gun back, then send it to the manufactorer for service and then try to get it back the feds will not let you get it back because it was a stolen gun?
 
How do you feel about registering your car? That is a requirement in every state that I know of, yet I'm guessing most people commenting in this thread don't care about that. I have known of only one person willing to stand against the law and refuse to register his car on the grounds that it's unconstitutional.

Now let's take this to the next level. How many of you who live in states that require a permit to carry are refusing to get one and are carrying anyway? With a permit, you're in some database as being a gun owner, so I don't see how that's a whole lot better than registering your guns.

I don't agree with the registration myself (for guns or cars), so really I'm playing devil's advocate. Just curious where people stand.
The Constitution says nothing about the right to keep and operate a car, although it does explicitly mention the right to keep and bear arms. There are other rights that I would not be willing to register, such as my religious affiliation.

In regards to CCW, that only identifies you as a gun owner. It does not allow them to know the specific guns you have, which would make complete confiscation difficult. They could intern you, but that is likely a much harder political measure.
 
The Constitution says nothing about the right to keep and operate a car, although it does explicitly mention the right to keep and bear arms. There are other rights that I would not be willing to register, such as my religious affiliation.
I like this.
+1 Internets for you.
 
In regards to CCW, that only identifies you as a gun owner. It does not allow them to know the specific guns you have, which would make complete confiscation difficult. They could intern you, but that is likely a much harder political measure.
On one hand you say your constitutional right to bear arms is why you don't feel you need to register your gun, yet that same right should allow you to carry without a permit, no?

And I only know about Michigan, but they dig way deeper in your past for your carry permit than they do for just a gun purchase. In fact, when a cop runs your plates it pops right up that you're a permit holder; no such information for simply purchasing a gun. I would also guess that from a federal standpoint, Uncle Sam knows more about permit holders than simple gun owners. The background check to buy a gun is minor, and it only includes a state check. To get your permit, they get the FBI involved.
 
I would also guess that from a federal standpoint, Uncle Sam knows more about permit holders than simple gun owners. ... To get your permit, they get the FBI involved.

Care to cite something to prove this? Which states register their carry permit holders with the federal government? Which federal agency records this information?

The background check to buy a gun is minor, and it only includes a state check.
You do realize that NICS stands for "The National Instant Criminal Background Check System," right? As in, they call the FBI when they sell you a gun.

Of course, they don't tell Uncle Sam which gun you're buying, and Uncle Sam is required to purge any record of those checks within a few months. (Last I knew that time was 90 days.)
 
On one hand you say your constitutional right to bear arms is why you don't feel you need to register your gun, yet that same right should allow you to carry without a permit, no?

And I only know about Michigan, but they dig way deeper in your past for your carry permit than they do for just a gun purchase. In fact, when a cop runs your plates it pops right up that you're a permit holder; no such information for simply purchasing a gun. I would also guess that from a federal standpoint, Uncle Sam knows more about permit holders than simple gun owners. The background check to buy a gun is minor, and it only includes a state check. To get your permit, they get the FBI involved.

It absolutely should not require an extra permit. However, as I myself am I law abiding citizen, I have a simple choice, do not carry concealed or adhere to the law and go through the registration process. What is even worse, NC is an OC state. So without any background check I am considered trustworthy enough to openly carry a firearm but magically once I conceal it, I am no longer so without a $90 fee, a $50-$100 course, a deep background check, and having my fingerprints on file at the SBI and possibly submitted to the FBI.

You would say it keeps folks safer but really, someone could hit google find out how to make some pretty darned power explosives, easily buy the components, assemble them, and do some horrible damage without any permit or government checklist.

If anyone can go insane and shoot someone, certainly anyone can go insane, search google for 10 minutes, and do something absolutely horrible. We won't hear that on the news though and you would never have folks calling for a national registry on the household items that could be used for such things.
 
Care to cite something to prove this? Which states register their carry permit holders with the federal government? Which federal agency records this information?

They did tell me that my prints had to "come back from the FBI" before I could get my permit, I'm not sure if that means they told them I was getting a permit, or just making sure I wasn't a wanted felon.
 
I used to work with a bunch of people who mostly were opposed to private gun ownership or didn't care but figured that guns were dangerous and maybe bad. Many discussions took place with these people before I finally realized I was talking to myself (a little slow on the uptake maybe?). Their reasons for believing that guns should be registered ranged from, "well cars are registered" (so they can be taxed, and no other reason), "to help solve crimes" (regardless what the cops and robbers shows on tv say that's ridiculous), and even "so that the police will know who has guns" (for confiscation purposes maybe?).

Baseball bats, hammers, axes, chainsaws, picks, knives, and other instruments that might be used to assault someone aren't registered, and can be every bit as deadly as a gun if you get close enough. In Holland recently they had a gun turn in with no questions asked, and suggested that baseball bats should maybe be turned in too. Naturally the criminals all rushed to turn in their guns and baseball bats. :rolleyes:

The only good reasons to register guns is so that the government can tax them, then confiscate them. Anyone who says otherwise is a liar, and thinks that whoever they're talking to is dumber than a sack of hammers.
 
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