Firearm safety and the autistic kid

[kd7nqb]

The range of Autism is so massive it would be impossible to make a judgement based soley on a diagnosis. My brother has Ausbergers and he does attend a mainstream school but struggles and still needs a special social skills class. He is very much fascinated with firearms but never in a dangerous way. He was started on an Air rifle just like I was, then .22's. Actually one of the most mature moments I ever saw was when he didnt want to shoot my .40 because he said "I'm not ready for that yet". An interesting point is also that many kids with Autism get overstimulated by loud noises so sometimes a day on the range can actually be very stressful on them.

 

[jr45]

this does NOT sound like a good mix to me! i have a brother in law who is autistic. yes, they do develop in time. to some extent. heck, a lot of people without learning disabilities get into trouble with guns. let alone a child who's brain isn't always going to function properly. i can watch my b.i.l. do the same thing 3 times, and and they are never really the same. i know it is hard to change thier interest once they lock onto something. but this is something that NO GOOD can come from!

This situation is very dependent on the individual's ability to comprehend what he is performing. In this case, only the parents would know if their child is ready for this.

As I posted earlier (#4), I taught my 12yr old Autistic son to shoot, it was not very difficult nor too nerve racking (got to watch for muzzle control...just as you do with any beginner) however; the loud sound of the gunshots at the range did scare him at first. The key is approaching it slowly and with great care. This helped eliminate much of the mystery/focus he had for shooting.

 

[Diamondback6]

but this is something that NO GOOD can come from!

Eager to leap to the hasty generalization there, are we? As noted, we have at least three individuals with autism-spectrum conditions posting in this thread--are you going to tell us that we aren't fit to defend our own lives and communities or participate in the shooting sports?

If so, come find me and say that to my face! That does sound a lot like your bottom line...

 

[WayneConrad]

Gently, gently...

Those who say it's inadvisable are probably speaking from their experience with much worse autism.

Those who say it's doable have experience with different sorts of autism, no doubt.

I'm sure no insult was intended by anyone. As has been noted, the parent has to make the final call. My friend believes that his son is on the "safe to try it out, with care and forethought" side of the spectrum. I trust in my friend's judgment. As I said in an email to him, "I'm our firearms guy. I can teach you firearm safety. You're our "your son" guy..."

 

[bogie]

I've been shooting since I was eight. Safely. Gunfire is actually somewhat comforting to me... Sudden loud noises, however, tend to make me hit the deck...

I prefer to refer to my little taste as "geek syndrome." I don't like to get all technical. I'm genius-level, but the hard part is focusing the genius.

Wayne, does the kid geek out on stuff? How smart is he? Does he learn absotively everything there is to know about something, and then bore you to death with it?

I wouldn't worry too much about safety... He'll probably be lecturing you.

Moose, are you sure your BIL is autistic? Or is he retarded? I suspect you are equating the syndrome(s) with an inability to function. Far from the case with many of us.

Let's see...

Kindergarten - special program for gifted students.

Moved to small town.

First grade - they saw that I'd been in a special program, and didn't read any further... Spent half a day in a room with a buncha kids who were drooling on themselves before I convinced the keeper to go find the principal. Got switched.

Third grade - driving teachers nuts - I'd read the text during the first week of class, and then call 'em on things when they'd screw up.

Fourth grade - got moved to private school. Them penguins don't take crap off anyone, but they'll also work you pretty hard too...

High school - penguins didn't do high school, so got to go to the public one. Took a long time before I realized that being smart was not a good thing. Got bullystomped pretty regularly. I was NOT an A student... Generally bored out of my mind. Guidance counselor kept asking me why I was taking college prep courses - didn't I want to learn a trade? Then I took the ACT and SAT tests, and broke the curve... Suddenly I was the guidance counselor's favorite person...

College - Figured that high school sucked, so it was time for a new project. I reinvented myself. Ended up living in the football dorm, and I finally got my growth... I learned how to work a room. Learned how to know EVERYONE. I organized a few truly good parties. Went through about 7-8 majors... (sigh). Got a BA in public relations. I'm a decent strategist, editor, etc., but I'm not really the guy you want leading the tour group.

Played Army in the middle of things - Public Affairs... I'm not enough of a "people person" to be "the face," but I rock with the nuts and bolts...

Right after graduation, ran my own desktop publishing outfit for five years. Then ended up going to work doing communication graphics for a consulting company at a big chemical company. And from there, ended up in the pharmaceutical end. You wouldn't believe the number of geeks in the labs... Or maybe you would. I fit in pretty well there...

Now I'm back to the self-employment thing... And trying to target the focus...

 

[Gingerbreadman]

+1 to what Bogie said. Almost exactly my life story so far (still doing the college thing...). I do have Asperger's by the way.

I don't have much to say that hasn't been said already. I will say something about dealing with the noise though. For me, personally, unwanted noise= bad. Noise as a byproduct of a desired activity=tolerable. Noise as a byproduct of a desired activity while trying to focus on many things at once=really bad. I hate having abnoxious or loud noises for any peroid of time, but the awesomeness of having something go BOOM when I want it to is trumps that.

If you show up at the range and this kid starts getting agitated, its time to pack up and leave. If shooting on private land is an option, go that route.

If he really is capable of shooting safely, this is the route I would go: firearms safety (four rules taught one-on-one, etc.) and familiarization, gun with snap-caps, bb-gun, .22, then the big stuff. If at any time it isn't working out, its probably a no-go. If it does work out, awesome. Pretty soon he may memorize all of the parts of a particular gun, then try to build it...

 

[Diamondback6]

OK, my story:

Went through kindergarten twice over "lack of social skills". Almost immediately thereafter placed into once-a-week pull-out gifted program, then moved into full-time gifted for grades 5/6.

"Stalled out" in junior high and high-school, generally hit-and-miss performance. When I was in a "hit" class, though... well, my senior-year history instructor was big on having me "guest lecture", he thought I was that good in the field.

College, started to see a dramatic improvement, even had a history prof threatening to list me as "co-prof" when I was in one of his classes, frequent guest-speaker on ASD's for the Psych Department, and worked with Campus Security on self-defense workshops a lot. (Also, regularly doing lunch with the Chancellor of the college was kinda cool... )

Wayne, sorry 'bout that--I'm extremely slow to anger but once you strike a nerve like Moose did, watch out...

 

[mekender]

as an instructor, i could see that there would be some definite challenges to teaching someone with mental issues... my father has several autistic kids in his classes and they are quite functional... i would think that a good start would be to use an airsoft gun... from there, perhaps some blanks or empty cases with primers in em to see if he could handle the noise (with ear protection of course)... i would imagine that it would have to be slow and steady with a lot of repetitive instruction... if the kid wasnt too impaired, it would be possible, but again, very time consuming...

also, it would depend on exactly how the specific autistic kid functioned... hell, he might be someone that has a talent for mechanical items and or shooting... and be a perfect student... then again, he might be someone that has talent for painting and music and be more concerned with the sound and rythim of shooting...


most important, i would take him shooting in a place where you and he could be totally alone and not have to worry about other people shooting and making lots of noise to scare him... it would be horrible to take him out, make lots of progress and then some stupid redneck pulls out a S&W .500 and the shock wave starts freaking him out...

 

[tpaw]

If you show up at the range and this kid starts getting agitated, its time to pack up and leave.

The safety of other shooters at a range should be a primary concern. A sudden unpredictable outburst could create a hazardous situation. Something to consider.

 

[bogie]

Hey, there's a big difference between autism/asperger's and stuff like ADHD... Those are the kids I'd worry about with a boomstick...

As for for dealing with gunfire... Hang out in the range shack, and watch through a window... "Wow... Is it going to go off? Look at how he's sighting on the target... <BOOM> Hey, cool! Look through the telescope and see where it hit - you can do better than that!" Make the noise a cool thing. A good thing. "Do you want to go give it a try now, or should we watch a little more?"

Start him with a .22, and let him shoot anything he wants. And if he's a smart aspie, treat him as an adult. Because a lot of him has skipped childhood already.

 

[daniel (australia)]

At the risk of repeating what others have said I think it is important to note that there's an enormous range of behaviours and limitations across the autistic spectrum, from those of us who have learned to pass (at least most of the time) for neurotypical through someone like my brother, who cannot, but can live reasonably independently regardless, through to those who'll never be able to do even that. There's also differences in the precise quality of "differentness", even in the highest function/Asperger end of the scale.

Some may well absorb, live and breathe all you can teach them, adopt the Rules as ritual, and end up as excellent shots and eventually prolific contributors to gun boards . This won't be true of all though, whether because of an inability to cope with the stimuli or an incapacity to be safe.

As I said earlier, it will be a case by case thing, and I agree that this should be the parents' call. I also agree with doing a fair bit of preparation of the ground before moving to actual shooting, and moving along gradually and ideally well away from public ranges.

 

[bogie]

My brother, who has thus far not been diagnosed, is, in my opinion, more profoundly affected (my father's a -serious- history and economics geek, and is VERY cool...), while at the same time being more toward neurotypical on the intelligence scale. He geeks on stuff like juggling or unicycle riding, etc., and would possibly be of benefit to a circus... He's spent most of his adult life around universities, and, at least to me, comes across as your basic student center debater... He's got a degree in one of the scientific disciplines, but since he refuses to Work For The Man, well, it's pretty much useless.

I don't think I'd trust him around guns, but that's mostly because he liked to take potshots at me with a BB gun when we were kids... Altho I -could- see him staging something that he would think would benefit his end of the political spectrum.

Maybe time will rub a few of the rough edges off...

My sister is largely neurotypical, almost as smart as I am, and very successful.