Firearms - As an Investment

[JoeMal]

Well all enjoy firearms and the activities that go along with them (researching, shooting, reloading, spending time with friends, etc). Firearms give us something to do, they make us feel safe both at home and away.

These are expensive pieces of equipment but they can last a lifetime, or two, or three...

I was recently talking about this with my fiancee. I was talking with her buying ammo and supplies (and how you can never have enough), and we started talking about future gun purchases. She made the comment about "how expensive guns are" (she's fine with shooting, she enjoys shooting herself....she's just a penny pincher ) I brought up while yes, they are expensive to buy, but they last forever when taken care of. What else can you spend a few hundred dollars on and it will last a lifetime?

Last time I put tires on my car it cost me a little over $400....and I have to replace them every few years. Grocery shopping and home supplies; that's an easy $300-$400 a month and that's only feeding 2 people, let alone if I had kids or supported other family members. Spend $1,000 on a TV and it will be 'old' in 3 years. Spend $1,000 on a gun and you have decades of enjoyment.

This really got me thinking about much of an investment firearms are. When you look at how much they cost in relation to the rest of life's 'everyday' functions, they are actually a steal IMO. Someday my child/children will inherit my collection and hopefully they can pass it to their children. What an investment. You are supplying happiness, friendship, a hobby, and more when you purchase a gun. There isn't much else in life that does that, at least that I have experience with.

I just think that's awesome.



/rant

 

[MrBorland]

Firearms are poor investments, IMO.

Investments should increase your net worth, and unless you only buy safequeens, the cost of shooting alone puts one into the red. IOW, for those that one enjoy shooting, the initial price of the gun (and therefore investment value) over time becomes insignificant compared to range fees, ammo, gas, etc.

Also, not all firearms hold their value. Some do. And fewer will increase in value. But that Python you bought new in 1975 will likely do little better than inflation when the calculation is done. Again, though, factor in the cost of shooting it, even a little, and you're in the red.

 

[HGUNHNTR]

Agreed, firearms offer a very poor return compared to many other investment vehicles.

You are comparing firearms to items that are in no way investments....food, televisions, and the like. Yes they hold more value than these items, but compared to "real" investments, they don't hold a candle.

 

[Officers'Wife]

I suppose you would have to define your use as investment. I've always seen the objects as a depreciable asset. If used as a business tool one could be considered an asset. As a speculation object, bought with the expectation of an increase in value... you would have better odds putting back a newly minted coin or stamp with the hope it might someday be a collectors' item.

 

[JoeMal]

Investments can have more than monetary value...I think my point was missed. I'm not saying my Glock 17 will be worth $1,000 in 50 years...

Nevermind

 

[desidog]

+1 for MrBorland

As an investment, your kids might be happier if you put that loot into a good NASDAQ stock or hedge- or mutual fund. Well-managed money can double in value roughly every seven years; collectible guns do not.

I view guns like tools; barrels do wear out, just like drill-bits.

 

[Officers'Wife]

I think my point was missed.

Your point was the idea of firearms as a legacy, your language defined them as an investment. The two concepts are very much at odds with each other in every aspect but real estate.

 

[Matt Smith]

I get what the OP was trying to say. I think that firearms are more of "money well spent" than an "investment". I had a friend just the other day trying to convince me to buy an ipad instead of a new gun. Why would I want to spend $500+ on something that will be completely obsolete in a few years, when a well taken care of firearm will last my lifetime and be passed on to my children?

 

[KarenTOC]

Investments can have more than monetary value...I think my point was missed.

A good gun is an "investment" in personal safety, recreation, and, if you're lucky, family bonding. It won't increase your personal wealth, but I'd say the return is more than adequate.

 

[MrBorland]

Your point was the idea of firearms as a legacy, your language defined them as an investment.

I get what the OP was trying to say. I think that firearms are more of "money well spent" than an "investment".

Yep. I get the points: Semantics aside, when I look in my safe, I'm happy that this money wasn't spent on worthless trinkets. And that the whole point of a hobby is to be "investing" in one's happiness.

 

[danlee36]

I see where the OP is coming from. An investment with more than monetary value as said, that can be passed down and enjoyed in other ways for a long period of time as opposed to more consumable products like tires which need replacement every so often (that you don't really enjoy as much, or at all, I'd say), etc. I know one thing, there isn't a pair of tires in the world I would wanna pass down to my kids some day, but my collection of firearms, definitely. Sure shooting is an expensive hobby, but if you're smart about it, you can make money or trade up or down slightly to what you like. It's one of the few LESS depreciable items in this crazy world we live in.

just my $.02

 

[searcher451]

It all depends on your perspective, and on how long you live. If you enjoy the firearms you own and care for them while you have them and then hand them down to the next generation of JoeMals, then all is right with the world and your investment already has paid dividends. Of course, if you live to be 200 years old and decide to sell them at that point, their value will no doubt have increased greatly from the time that you first purchased them and you could make a killing, as it were -- especially if you continue to care for them properly. I don't think it makes much sense to buy a firearm today with the expectation that it will make you a tidy profit a year from now, however.

 

[HGUNHNTR]

Yep, the word -investment- is often misunderstood and consequentially misused. More often than not the word "liability" should be substituted.

 

[XxWINxX94]

I would say depending on what firearms, you could invest and make lots of money in many years, or you could invest and lose.
An example: In 1884, a Winchester model 1873 cost under $100, if what I read is true. 126 years later, the same gun can demand $1000's. Unless your emotionally attached to it, that would be a good investment, and will probably increase in price over the years. However, it would involve several generations.

Another example: Lugers. In my area, German Lugers have skyrocketed in value over the past 2 years. However, 4 or 5 years ago, I sold a mismatched Luger to a friend for $900. Today, mismatched ones go for alot more than $900 based on condition. This fluctuation was kind of random, at least I didn't see it coming.

 

[parsimonious_instead]

How about a hybrid strategy of keeping an eye out for undervalued guns?
I bought a Rossi .45 levergun for a really excellent price, so much that I knew it ahead of time and didn't even try to chip the guy down.

 

[oldbear]

Someday my child/children will inherit my collection and hopefully they can pass it to their children. What an investment. You are supplying happiness, friendship, a hobby, and more when you purchase a gun. There isn't much else in life that does that, at least that I have experience with.

You really want something of vales to pass down to your children, invest in one of the following: land, (they aren’t making any more of it.) diamonds, or gold. Now if you want to indulge yourself in a hobby buy guns’. In-fact if you have enough guns you can take the land, diamonds, and gold from those who bought it in the first place. Awe come on someone was going to say it

 

[Mike OTDP]

From a purely monetary perspective, modern firearms aren't a terribly good investment. Older guns are quite another matter. You can turn quite a profit if you buy prudently and are patient. Nevertheless, a good S&P 500 index fund is likely to do as well, and be more liquid.

That being said, the OP was mroe focused on heirloom sentimental value than cash. And he's got a point.

 

[Old Fuff]

Actually I agree with JoeMal - at least up to a point. It depends on a number of factors, such as buying new or used, and how much or little use the firearm has.

Guns may or may not have the investment value of such things such a land or gold, but both of those are "pure" investments that you can hold, but not really use - unless you build a house or make other improvements to the land.

Lets say (and this really happened) that you have enough smarts to spot a used S&W Military & Police revolver. These are very common, but this one has a history. It was purchased by the U.S. Navy in 1941, in a single contract that was limited to 3000 guns. Today only a few hundred are still around. So you pick up the gun for a fraction of it's worth, that has now more then doubled since you bought it only a few years back. Since it was used there is no reason you can't use it as a shooter - at least within reason. Oh, and the value is still going up, without the up & down that Wall Street is going through. Also you can sell it without having to pay Uncle Sam a capital gains tax unless you sell a large collection all at once.

All and all, guns can do you good...

 

[Officers'Wife]

Hi Old Fuff,

Guns may or may not have the investment value of such things such a land or gold, but both of those are "pure" investments that you can hold, but not really use - unless you build a house or make other improvements to the land.

There are many ways to make a profit off land without making improvements. One charming old gentleman I met in Virginia 'leased' 50' x 50' plots for use as gardens. His only expense was a rototiller attachment for his garden tractor/lawn mower yet he routinely had every inch of a 2.5 acre lot rented. With gold I agree with you.

Firearms as a financial investment would fall under the heading of gambling. With the number of variables involved in their worth... JoeMal is talking of the instruments much in the same way as my grandfather talked about the trees he planted. Not as a crop but as a show of faith that his descendants would be able to enjoy them and be grateful to him for providing them.

 

[Old Fuff]

Concerning land, you are right of course, at least in some instances. But my gun purchases are based on knowledge, not gambling.

Most "pure" investments are not enjoyable, they simply (or hopefully) make the owner more wealth. This of course is enough for most investors. What JoeMal and I am saying is that it's possible to have some fun as well.

If some investors followed the top classic & antique gun auctions (and I don't mean GunsAmerica or Gunbroker) they might get a shock.

For example, I recently used my expertise(?) to value a particular piece at between $350 to $400. It sold for over $800.

 

[bob.a]

I"m not thrilled with the Wall Street sort of investment. Very like Vegas; the house always wins. Recent incidents in the market convince me that it's a rigged game for insiders; any profits made by the little guys are merely luck.

Gold goes up and down. It's a non-producing asset that hedges against government currency follies. The more you distrust your govt, the more gold you should hold. But you can't eat it, and you have to protrct it.

Land can be good, or bad, depending on location, accessibility, resources available, and the vagaries of the govermnents that have an interest in taxing or condemning it.

"Things" can be good investments, depending on desreability and liquidity issues, and of course on initial cost. Art, rare books, early Cremona violins, collectible stamps, all these can store and transfer wealth, but are somewhat subject to the whims of the marketplace. Diamonds are artificially controlled in the market to keep values high, a strong downside risk in my opinion.

I have a bunch of safe queens, but as for a decent investment, I bought a well-used S&W pre-model 27, had it overhauled by a competent gunsmith, and have under 750 in it altogether. I can take it out and shoot it all I want, and not diminish its value at all, and I can enjoy it for the rest of my days and expect its worth will increase over time. Like land, they aren't making any more, and it's well enough made that I'm not worried about using it.

Still, it's not bright to put all your eggs in one basket. Risk and excess money should be spread around to guard against loss. After all, the second amendment is not writ in stone, and lots of places have confiscated firearms witout recourse or adequate compensation. Gold too, as I recall.

To be truly free, you must have nothing to lose. Otherwise you're a slave to your stuff. Admittedly a tough course to follow, and not suitable for most people.

 

[BADUNAME37]

All I can claim is that I have purchased a number of guns through the years and every time I sold one, I got about the same amount of money I had into it in the first place, once in a while I would have to take a loss.

I can honestly say that - out of all the 'transactions' I did, I never once sold a gun for any more than I purchased it new. I only ever bought brand new guns, never a used gun.

 

[arkansashillbilly]

I certainly wish I had bought lots more K31's at 120 each or CZ52's at $95 a pop or unissued Yugo SKS's for what $130 several years ago. If I had and sold them now they certainly would have given a much greater return on investment than my retirement account dollar for dollar. Plus I could have used them in the meantime. The Mosins not so much though, however they haven't gone down either.
From what I've seen, guns don't lose value much at all. At least not the used ones I play with.
An investment though does you very, very little good until you cash it out. If you plan to keep them your whole life, who cares if they go up or down. Your kids might later when you are gone and they want to sell them, but they won't know or even care much what you paid anyway.
My other hobby is cars. They don't increase, especially with wear. In both hobbies though the "expendible": fuel, oil, ammo, whatever is just the cost that you pay to play. That's a hobby. I'm not the kind of guy that expects my hobby to make me money. If it was to make me money, I'd probably stress about the hobby not performing well enough and it would no longer be fun.

 

[tech]

Maybe not an investment but a store of value if you bought it right.

 

[Hatterasguy]

Firearms are not an investment.


Having said that I don't think they are a horrible waste of money compared to some other stuff. An Iphone is like $600 and its shot in 2-3 years. I can spend that same $600 on a rifle and get enjoyment out of it for 20-30 years, or sell it for a percentage of what I paid down the road.

Investment no, but your not throwing the money away like with other stuff.


OTOH I have done pretty good with a lot of my rifles, I could make a bit of money on my K31, FN49, and Mosin if I were to sell them now. I bought those right and K31's jumped in price a bit. Although I bought my Sig at the top of the market last year so I lost big time on that one. Older rifles tend to be fully depreciated and if you buy them right they don't lose money. Good K98's are shooting up in value. I beleive Enfields and K31's are probably not to far behind.

Go price out a GI bring back, no BS clean K98. They are just about $1k rifles.