"Firearms turned agains them"

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ilcylic

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I'm having a discussion with a friend in which I'm trying to dispel the notion that "women will just have their firearms turned against them" by rapists and other attackers.

Instinctively, I feel that the person with their finger on the trigger has an almost undeniable upper hand, especially if they don't have to engage in any sort of "apprehension" behaviour, like the police do. Likewise, the fact that all I can get out of google for every way I can think to phrase it results in no news articles citing an actual case of such a thing happening, but rather only links to anti-gun propaganda, indicates to me that this is hyperbolic nonsense.

What I'm wondering is, does anyone have any citations for how frequently a firearm is taken away from a civilian wielder, and then used against that person, versus the total number of incidents in which a firearms is used in a confrontation between a criminal and a civilian? (I specify civilian, because, again, the police have a much higher contact rate with criminals, and typically being unsatisfied with simply driving them away, must get close enough that the prospect of having their firearms taken away becomes a seemingly much higher risk.)

Actually, now that I think about it, how frequently do the police have guns taken from them? Surely the percentages will be lower for civilians, since civilians don't have to apprehend criminals, but rather just drive them away.

If this is the wrong section of the board to post this in, I apologize.
 
An assailant has very little chance of taking a firearm away from a resolute victim, male or female. The problem is, too many people carry guns with the expectation that merely displaying them is enough to frighten away their attackers. Criminals are the world's best thumb-nail psycologists, and are very likely to discern whether the victim is really likely to use deadly force against them.

From my "Rules of Combat Gunfighting"....

Rule 6: It's better to be tried by 12 than carried by 6. Shoot without hesitation if you believe your life is in danger. A gun is a weapon, not a magic wand that will paralyze your opponents with fear or make them reasonable. If you aren't prepared to kill to defend yourself, don't carry a gun.
 
Ladies need training - just same as any of us - and with adequate training it is more than unlikely that a piece will be appropriated from them. Without training then yes - there could be some risk. The person who carries has to be resolute (as well as responsible) - and know how they have to respond - if - the worst happens.

Reminds me of one old friend who informs me - ''If you carry a gun, you are asking for trouble''.! :rolleyes: :p Oh well - so be it! ;)
 
I'm having a discussion with a friend in which I'm trying to dispel the notion that "women will just have their firearms turned against them" by rapists and other attackers.
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If it can be done to cops, it can be done to anybody. That said™, the armed, practiced defender has nearly all the advantages.
 
Of course. It makes much more sense to submit to the rape, beating and possible murder than to actually attempt to defend yourself. After all, that's what the police are for. Let the authorities handle it. :rolleyes:

Darwin was right, about some stuff anyway.
 
I would think it would be highly unlikely to impossible that a gun could be taken away if the gun is being fired in a defensive manner. :eek: It just seems to go against human nature.
 
Why would anyone worry about that?

1. If it's so easy to turn someone's firearm against them, as soon as the crook takes it, the woman just has to take it back.

2. If the woman did her job properly, she won't need to worry that the crook has taken her now empty firearm.

3. If the firearm is such an ineffectual weapon that the use of the firearm by the owner can't prevent it's being taken, then the owner shouldn't worry that that same ineffectual weapon might be turned against her.

It's a foolish argument. It requires that the weapon be both ineffectual and deadly at the same time. It requires that the firearm be both easy to take and hard to take at the same time. It requires that the firearm be difficult to use and easy to use at the same time.

In short, like most anti-gun arguments it's not at all well thought through.
 
It's a propaganda argument and it's a good indicator that whoever's using it has been drinking the kool-aid. It's highly unoriginal and was one of the first rationales behind the idea that women are too weak to defend themselves on their own and must rely on big, strong authoritarian types (representatives of the state government, preferably) to protect them.

Of course, I've seen this coupled with an argument that women should rely instead on martial arts, which is even more irrational, because if a woman is too weak to actually retain a weapon or fire it, how will she defend herself with hands and feet?
 
Chauvinistic attitude supported by the never ending string of movie ladies twisting their ankles fleeing and putting hero in danger. If the lady thinks the gun is a talisman she's in trouble. If she knows how to use her tool she is safe.
 
I have never heard about it happening to a civilian, I have heard about it happening to LEO's but that usually happens not during a shooting incident. but rather during an arrest or fight scenario, The police are required to try to keep the assailant alive and as such they try things you do not have to try such as searching and cuffing people they arrest. You on the other hand operate under the rule or engagement that If you pull the gun you are ready and willing to shoot to kill. Putting yourself under that ROE, then you are not going to let the assailant get that close.
 
What's that Clint Smith saying? Someday someone may kill me with my own gun; but they'll have to beat me to death with it because it will be empty.
 
Heh, whenever someone says that to me in an argument, I call em out! I hold my finger and thumb in the shape of a gun, and say, "Heres my gun, take it from me..."

Then, just as they reach toward me, I say loudly, "BANG".... They pull back in suprise, then often will go for it again. Once again, I say "BANG"... (Lather, Rinse, Repeat).

Eventually they get the picture :cool:
 
It's already been covered but I will reiterate:
1) The handgun is not a magic talisman that will magically cause all assailants to disappear. It should never be drawn by a private citizen except to be used.
2)The time to decide to shoot to kill in self defense is before you ever carry one. If you can't make that shot then don't carry.
3) When I hear this idiocy; I immediately tell them that it is idiocy and invite them to don goggles and try it against an AirSoft gun...but be prepared for the results.

Idiots should be told that they are idiots...politely, of course. The poor things might not know.

Al Thompson has a hilarious story about disarm techniques with him as the guinea pig. The martial arts instructor has Al in front of the class holding a simulated weapon. Instructor states that he is now going to disarm Al. Al drops the hammer. The instructor says,"Don't do that now." Al replies,"You said you were going to take my gun." And then does it again every time the instructor twitches.

I know of one guy who tried to take someone's gun away here in Waynesboro. He lunged for it. Got shot. Through the lungs, heart, and liver. DRT. Aftermath of a robbery attempt that went south big time. The shooter was interviewed by the police at the station for a couple of hours. Never arrested and never indicted. Thug's family went around to the local lawyers wanting to file a wrongful death lawsuit. All of the lawyers said sure and that will be X thousand dollars...up front and in cash. That ended that.
 
A female acquaintance of mine had her firearm taken away from her by a home intruder. She simply lacked the will to pull the trigger.

Yesterday, a NYPD officer was shot with his own gun when he got into a scuffle.
 
If I remember right from John Lott's book, armed women are 4 times less likely to be attacked.
 
Neither Kellerman et al (source of the bogus "gun in the home is 43 times more likely to kill you than defend against an intruder" factoid) nor the National Crime Victimization Study contain ANY examples of a citizen's gun being taken away and used against them.

You can probably find an article on the topic at www.guncite.com.
 
Determination is the bottom line

Any person who is not willing to pull the trigger to injure / kill an intruder/ assailant can have a gun taken from them. As women are typically of smaller physical stature than most men, it will be easier to take a pistol from them if they will not shoot.

If women were easy to disarm simply due to inherent feminity, there would be legal grounds to prevent women from serving in armed law enforcement capacity.

If a person can't take another human life, they shouldn't own a gun for self-defense.
 
If women were easy to disarm simply due to inherent feminity, there would be legal grounds to prevent women from serving in armed law enforcement capacity.
Click to expand...

excellent point, im gonna use that
 
I'm having a discussion with a friend in which I'm trying to dispel the notion that "women will just have their firearms turned against them" by rapists and other attackers.
Click to expand...

Your friend can't deny a woman having a gun. Discussion over.
 
It is truly a ridiculous argument.

A gun is truly a last ditch effort to save your life. The way I see it, by the time you have reason to pull a gun, you are already in dire need, and if the gun is indeed taken away, it is not going to change the situation too much. You were already in fear for your life.

Even if the gun is grabbed, the person with their finger on the trigger is still in control to a degree. If a person grabs the barrel/slide assembly, when the trigger is pulled they will at worst be shot, or at best have their hand cut up when the slide cycles. I think either choice would probably make them rethink their hold on the gun.
 
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