First 38 special loads, unburnt powder?

[danosrs]

I just loaded 12 110 grain 38 special JHP winchesters with 7.6 grains of Blue Dot OAL 1.435 and when I went to the range ( 6in barrel S&W) I noticed they were a little soft and when removing shells I noticed some unburnt powder still in the emptys?? I then went home and loaded some 158 grain LSWC's with 6.1 grains of blue dot OAL 1.425 and back to the range with the same results.

I don't think this is normal and I'm thinking I need a little more crimp......any ideas??

 

[Jim Watson]

Why are you using Blue Dot?
I doubt that .38 Special pressures will give a complete burnup of Blue Dot. What the shotshell reloading writers call "heat." I have never used it in anything but low to middle .357 Magnums and it is still not as uniform as I would like.

 

[danosrs]

In the reloading manual it's listed first for 110 grain jacketed, also the Bass pro shop in Orlando has a limited selection of powder unless your loading for shotgun.

Are you suggesting blue dot is not a good choice and I should expect this from this powder?

 

[Catbird]

I agree with Jim Watson. There are many other powder choices more suitable for .38 special handloads. I, personally, use Accurate Arms #5, however Alliant's Unique and Hodgdon's Universal would also work well.

Bottom line: Alliant's Blue Dot is a bit too slow burning for your application.

 

[P95Carry]

I agree too - no way is Blue Dot IMO any good for 38 spl loads. Too slow and you WILL get apparent unburned powder residue, for sure.

Switch to a faster powder - lots of choices will work - lots. Unique has been mentioned - it'll do OK. But the ''ol faithful'' Bullseye will do good too.

You mentioned shotgun powders well - Accurate now list Solo 1000 ( tho IIRC it is Eastern Block manufacture) ....... that has some loads for 38 spl - ultra economical to use. Not sure if I have figures for 110's but - anyways - see what other powders you may have available and post back on what your options may be - we could take it from there.

 

[The Bushmaster]

EeeHaaaaa!!!! Another vote for W-231. also an excellent choice for .38 Special.....

 

[Sharps Shooter]

You might try increasing your powder charge a bit so you have more pressure. I have a Lyman manual in front of me that shows 8.0 grains of Blue Dot as a minimum charge with a 110 grain JHP in a .38 Special. My Speer manual lists 8.2 grains and it says "Do not reduce." As Jim Watson said, Blue Dot won't burn well unless it has enough pressure. If you want medium pressure loads, you'd probably be better off with a different powder. I like Unique myself.

 

[Nortonics]

Agreed, Blue Dot is just too slow for this cartridge. Check this powder burn rate chart:

Handloads.com - Approximate relative powder burn rates

Blue Dot is down at #36. Winchester Factory loaded 38 Special cartridges (both standard and +P) use Win 231, at #11, and their data is listed for a 6" barrel - much faster powder.

Now with the 2" snubs out there you might even get a little unburnt powder with Win 231. At present I'm experimenting with Bullseye and Titegroup in a 2" S&W 642 with the new Speer 130 GDHP bullets designed with snub nose revolvers in mind. Less unburnt powder and less flash from a 2" revolver, but still pushing 130 grains close to 1000 fps is what I'd like to achieve. And these two powders are among the fastest at #4 and #5 on the list.

 

[The Bushmaster]

Nope...I use 5.3 grains of W-231 (THIS A +P LOAD) and a good crimp and fire them out of a Mod 10 2" S&W. No unburnt powder. and respectable velocities. 750 fps (I bet someone will up my spec). BTW that is with a 125 grain Remington Bulk SJHP and WSP primer. I'm getting just under 700 fps with a 140 SJHP and 4.5 grains of W-231.

 

[g56]

WW231 is fast enough you wouldn't see any unburned powder, I've loaded 231 all over the place and never had a problem with unburned powder.

Blue Dot works pretty well in my 357 Magnum loads, 38 special probably wouldn't work too well...

 

[danosrs]

You Guys are great Thanks for all the help..............off to Bass Pro Shop I go.

 

[ID_shooting]

I have been having real good luck with Power Pistol in everything from 38 spcl to 10mm. good clean burns, meters very well, and consistant results.

 

[Jim Watson]

It is hard to get decent velocity with jacketed bullets at black powder pressures.
For example, Bushmaster could get a hundred or hundred and fifty feet per second more by going to cast bullets. Using moly coated cast if he worried about leading or smoke. I have shot moly coated Ranger and Precision bullets and now have some Bear Creek to work with.

 

[The Bushmaster]

I knew you or someone would do it, Mr. Jim Watson...L O L. One problem with me. At present, I don't load anything BUT jacketed bullets. So I strive to get the very best out of these bullets. Both velocity and the ablility to hit good, hard and on target. Sometimes this means to be under the max loading.

 

[bakert]

231 is good in a .38 but I also use AA5 and HS6 for a bit more more a bit more zip.
Baker

 

[The Bushmaster]

I have tried AA5 and found it heat sensitive both outside temperature and cylinder temperature. As the temperature of both went up so did the pressures. In my .38 Specials HS-6 was a little dirtier and a little less accurite then W-231. But, thank god for all these choices. Have fun.

 

[lmccrock]

231 and 38 special are good together in all aspects except 1: 231 is position sensitive. With small amounts of powder in a relatively large case, there is a noticeable velocity difference when the powder is close to the bullet (start with muzzle down and raise up) vs. powder close to the primer (after recoil, the muzzle is up, and is lowered back to level). Other than using more powder, I have not found a solution yet, but I will try Hodgdon Titegroup next time I load 38 special.

Lee

 

[only1asterisk]

As already stated several times, Blue Dot is not a great 38 Special powder. Don't up the charge looking for it to burn better. You'll have moderate 357 Mag. pressures before it cleans up.

David

 

[rbernie]

I mostly use Bullseye for my 125gr LSWC 38 Special loadings, but Blue Dot works quite nicely for me behind the heavier cast bullets (140gr-170gr). It meters well, gives me uniform velocities, and doesn't seem to be overly position or temperature sensitive.

 

[rbernie]

but Blue Dot works quite nicely for me behind the heavier cast bullets (140gr-170gr).

Coincidentally, I took my 4" and 6" 38 Specials to the range at lunch today. I was shooting my normal handload of 6gr Blue Dot under a 158g LSWC.

The indoor range that I normally use has a grooved black plastic tabletop for each lane. Today after I'd finished shooting, I had occasion to glance down at the tabletop at just the right angle and saw lots of little flecks sitting in the grooves of the tabletop. None to speak of on the pistol (as usual), but the evidence was there on the table - a dusting of Blue Dot all over the tabletop.

So nevermind what I said earlier...

 

[The Bushmaster]

L O L...You're alright in my book rbernie...I do have a question though and not just for rbernie. I've noticed that we are testing muzzle up to target and muzzle down to target. Who teaches to come from the ground up to the target? One of the reasons that I have consistent readings and a good burn from W-231 is that I was taught to bring the muzzle down to the target. I was never taught to come up to the target as I was told that was wrong. Besides. Most of the ranges I've been at you would have a hard time doing that, bringing the muzzle up, as the bench gets in the way. Yes. I understand powder next to the bullet and next to the primer problems. And it is good knowlege to know. But try to get into the habit of coming down to the target. It is much safer...

 

[cropcirclewalker]

Mr. Bushmaster,

I'm with you. I thought there was some sort of safety issue where you were supposed to point the muzzle down so that an AD doesn't go off into the heavens. I tried to remember what they do in the cop movies. I thought they pointed the muzzle up when they were like hiding behind some cover and or trying to clear a room or whatever.

This much I can say......I knew this guy who shot a navy colt .36 cap and ball or something like that. He always pointed the muzzle down because if he didn't sometimes the little cap would fall off the little nipple.

Is that why?

 

[lmccrock]

But try to get into the habit of coming down to the target. It is much safer

Um, how? What it sounds like you are saying is "Point muzzle at sky/roof and lower onto target". How is that safer? With light 231 loads, muzzle up avoids getting bullets stuck in my revolver, but, boy, when it happened to me it was a big clue to get a better load. Luckily there is a distinct sound difference between the PHHT of a too-light load lodging a bullet in the barrel, and the bang of a correct load. :banghead:

Lee

 

[The Bushmaster]

If you are at a range and you have a loaded firearm, especially a handgun, pointed down when approaching the firing line and it is dirt, concrete or asphault and it goes off you have flying dirt,concrete or asphault and a richocheying bullet. Most ranges are way out in the country and a stray just goes up and comes down. If you go to a range note how everyone carries loaded and unloaded weapons and if you watch the movies you will see the same thing. Some of you are going to disagree about this, I know. When you do, note how you carry your hunting rifle in the field and at home. It is easier to control a barrel pointed up then it is pointed down also. If your friend is having trouble keeping his caps on his BP pistol he should learn to pinch the cap a little before he places it on the nipple. I do this with my .50 TC Hawkins and have lost no caps on the range or in the field.

Note: To some people muzzle up or muzzle down is just a preference. I keep mine up...Now if you are in a concrete building (Inside range). Keep the muzzle down range.