First Aid Training

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atk

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Sorry in advance if this is the wrong forum, but I'm happy to announce that I've registered for First Aid & CPR training from the American Red Cross :D . I figure that, if I'm gonna CCW, I oughta be able to treat any wounds I, or any bystanders recieve (and maybe treat the agressor, depending on the situation).

Edited to add: For the sake of discussion: Who here has First aid training? I can think of plenty of reasons to get it; does anyone have reasons against it?
 
Good for you. I appreciate your help. EVERYONE should take one day out of their busy schedule to take a CPR class. If you understood how important this is, and how realistic the chance of you using it are, you would have already done it.

"Who here has First aid training?"
I have been a paramedic for the last 21 years, 18 of it as a full time paramedic in Las Vegas. I have worked as a volunteer, worked for several private ambulance companies, and have spent the last 11+ years working as a firefighter/paramedic.
 
I was gonna sign up for a class, been thinking about it myself. Putting it off for too long.
 
Skunkabilly,

If you wanna do it, head over to the America Red Cross web site http://www.redcross.org. They have a tool by which you can find a local chapter (look for one that offers "Community Information"). For the classes I'm taking, it's $150, over three evenings (about two weeks from now).
 
atk

I agree. I figure if I am going to carry I can at least take a CPR class.
OKC firestations are having free CPR classes this month. I plan to attend.

Mike
 
I have CPR/Combat Lifesaver certs. I'm enrolled in an EMT class for fall at my local community college.
 
I've kept my First Aid/CPR current for over a dozen years. Added backcountry rescue and swiftwater/whitewater as well.

Don't forget the National Safety Council (http://www.nsc.org/psg/fai.htm) or American Heart Association for training either. I've been to all three and found the NSC to be preferable.
 
Minnesota has a class offered through technical colleges, sponsored by the department of transportation (?) called first responder. I believe something similar is offered through other states. The training is 40 hours, and you are licensed by the state. This is an entry level requirement for volunteer fire departments, etc. A lot of LE folks take the same training.

I took the class is '95 and did not renew after '99. I have used that knowledge more times than I care to remember. There is never a reason to not take medical training.

Ryan
 
Can you elaborate on the 'First Responder' training? I'm involved in getting a practical shooting club going out here and me and the other SO's would like to have some basic first aid and trauma training. I had someone recommend the First Responder course, but I can't find one in Southern Maine...so far. If it's the right training for us, maybe I can get someone to give the class if I can get enough people ready to take it.

What does the course cover, and do you think it's the right class for a range safety officer crew?

Thanks,

- Gabe
 
Some random thoughts on first aid training......

Everybody ought to have some basic first aid training, just like everybody ought to have some basic handgun training and everybody ought to have some basic driver's training. Everybody ought to, most people don't.:(

Check out the Red Cross's new Wilderness First Aid course ( http://www.webtransylvania.com/redcross/wfab.htm ), if it's available in your area. It was developed in-house by a tiny little Red Cross chapter in Transylvania County, North Carolina and, by all reports it is very well-designed. I've got class dates in September and it's only costing $35 for the twenty hours. Of course, at $35 you don't get any take-home textbooks. I've seen it offered in Houston for $75 including copies of all texts. (As a comparison, Community First Aid ran $25 when I renewed a couple of months ago.)

1st Responder training generally comes after "Community 1st Aid/General First Aid" classes and prior to an EMT-Basic course. It's a good broad spectrum course. If you are looking at med training for a gun range, I'd suggest also talking to your local EMS guys about either having them put on a class for treating gunshot wounds for your guys &/or check into the availability of PHTLS (prehospital trauma life support) classes in your area.

Some of the best training out there is being done by private sector guys like John Holschen of Insights Training Center (http://www.insightstraining.com/ps/courses/first/tfa.htm).
Ian McDevitt, the author of Tactical Medicine, does classes in the NE. Check out www.realfighting.com for a schedule &/or contact info for Ian. I've got John coming to my town to do his Tactical First Aid course at the end of November. Eagerly awaiting that one.:)


There was a great article in the last issue of the ASLET magazine written by Mike Shertz (also of Insights Training Center) on the necessity "scenario-based" training for medical skills. Basicly, his points were that we have recognized the need for inducing stress through simunition scenarios, etc in firearms training and the use of "padded suits" for force-on-force training with impact weapons, unarmed skills, etc, to allow the student to be able to successfully use his skills in the real world and that we have to extned that training paradigm to medical skills also. The first time that a cop has to deal with the blood and guts and screaming of someone who has been shot multiple times it should not be when his partner is lying there (FOR REAL) bleeding out. Unfortunately, first aid training is given very little respect in LEO training and people simply aren't adequately trained to deal with it.

Gomez
 
I recently completed my CPR for the Professional Rescuer certifications. Very cool.
 
The one thing they don't tell you in CPR class is how many times it doesn't work. Most of the time its an exercise in futility.

Good way to catch AIDS, hepatitis, and various other life canceling diseases.

Ask a lot of questions.
 
Paul,

The one thing they don't tell you in CPR class is how many times it doesn't work. Most of the time its an exercise in futility.
Click to expand...

Well, that stinks. What makes it so futile? Is it just an inefficient technique; is it usually too late when CPR is being administered; or is it something completely different?


Good way to catch AIDS, hepatitis, and various other life canceling diseases.
Click to expand...

As far as open wounds, swapping spit, etc, I remember that from health class back in high school. The class I'm getting in teaches you how to use one of those one-way breather thingies, which I've got in my cary first aid kit. I've also got neoprene gloves to protect any open wounds on my hands from someone's fluids. (I'll be getting an on-person kit once I find a small one, and find a place to tuck it). Are there other concerns, here, that I don't know about?

Ask a lot of questions.
Click to expand...

That's always good advice, and I plan to do so. Does anyone have any advice for specific lines of thought I should keep in mind? Other than "how does this work, why does this work, and how do I protect myself doing it?"


Thanks!
 
Let me preface this: I am not a professional caregiver. I am not currently certified beyond the basic Red Cross Community First AId & Safety level. I am BY NO MEANS an authority on medical training. I have been trained to the EMT-B standards in the past, but have allowed those certifications to lapse. I have spent 10+ years in the Army and National Guard with certification as a Combat Lifesaver (which has no direct analogue to civillian training. Think 1st Responder + assorted EMT-B and EMT-I skills). Those of you who are current in the field, please provide what information you can.
------------------------

The reasons CPR fails to work in such a large percentage of cases are varied. It is performed incorrectly. It is used in situations where it is not neccessary. In traumatic injury cases, it can exacerbate the damage (if you perform CPR on someone with a major arterial bleed, before the bleed is taken care of, you will accelerate their bleeding out).

Current Red Cross doctrine has begun addressing personnal protective equipment and every kit they now market includes PPE. Remember, you are far more likely to use first aid skills on someone known to you than on a stranger. However, the general rule of thumb is "If you weren't swapping body fluids with someone on a regular basis before the injury, now is not the time to start!"

Asking questions is always good, but realize that the person teaching the Red Cross class must teach the Red Cross class and, a lot of times all they know is what they are teaching. Not to denigrate the awesome job they are doing, but in my experience, the instructors don't always have a level of knowledge beyond the students, so don't be surprised if they are uncomfortable answering hard questions.
 
"The one thing they don't tell you in CPR class is how many times it doesn't work. Most of the time its an exercise in futility."

Imagine the success rate from doing nothing.

First of all, when someone goes into cardiac arrest, they are obviously in a very bad way. Have no illusions that you are going to wave a magic wand over them and they are going to rise from the dead. The odds on someone being resuscitated from basic CPR alone is very slim. Basic CPR is only a single link in the chain, but one that is essential, one that is indispensible. Best case senario, someone goes down right in front of you in cardiac arrest. You immediately recognize what is happenin, call 911 and begin CPR. Within 5-7 minutes an ambulance staffed with paramdics arrive and begin ACLS (Advanced Cardiac Life Support). This would involve things like defibrillation, endotrachael intubation, IV, cardiac medications given IV, external pacing, etc. BUT !!!!! In order for the paramedics to have any chance of success, bystander CPR is essential. You are the one that is keeping this patients heart and brain perfused with oxygen prior to our arrival. Without this, we have nothing to work with. Throughout the time that advanced life support is administered, CPR is continued to keep the brain and heart oxygenated and also to circulate the IV medications which will go no where without CPR. Without the bystander, our chances of helping this person are nil.

As far as disease. The reason you should learn CPR is for your own family. Cardiac arrest isn't something that occurs only to old people with heart disease. Drownings, electrical shock, choking, SIDs, drug overdoes (including accidental), allergic reaction etc. can cause cardiac arrest. I have personally done CPR on at least a dozen young children that drowned in someone's pool In fact, the only time I ever did mouth to mouth was on a child that drowned. I don't blame you for not wanting to expose yourself to communicable disease by doing mouth to mouth on a stranger, but if it is your spouse, or your child, or your parents, you will look awfully stupid standing there wringing your hands waiting on an ambulance.

There is more to a CPR class than just CPR, it also covers choking, including what to do if you are choking and are by yourself. I actually saved my own life using a technique I learned in a CPR class. I was home alone and choked on a piece of steak. I had a totally obstructed airway and counldn't dislodge it. I threw my abdoman down over the back of a chair in effect doing a Heimlick manuver on myself. And it work.

Bystander CPR is so essential we have two programs in force in Las Vegas that have made a difference in the outcome of cardiac arrest that you wouldn't believe. For years I worked as a paramedic and worked hundreds if not thousands of "codes" and could count the saves on one hand. That isn't the case today. Today our dispatchers give "pre-arrival instructions" They instruct 911 callers how to do CPR before we get there. We also have a program where the casino security guards are trained in CPR and also equipped and trained to use automatic external defibrillators. Security in a hotel/casino is incredible. We often get to see security camera footage of cardac arrests from the moment they happen. We see someone clutch their chest and go down, we see security arrive within seconds and begin CPR, we see them defibrillate the patient, we see our co-workers come in and take over. Our success rates have soared through the roof. All because of bystander CPR. Now, I am successfull in resuscitating cardiac arrest patients more often than not AGAIN the reason for this isn't because of my training, experience, or expensive equipment; IT IS BECAUSE OF BYSTANDER CPR. A similar program has been instuted in airports and on planes. You can accomplish the same thing for your family in your home by taking one single day to learn what to do. You have no excuse.
 
For those who live in areas served by non-profit volunteer Ambulance/Rescue services, you might want to consider signing on as a volunteer. Many agencies offer free (or reimbursment) for all EMS training up to and including Paramedic.

PCRS offers First Aid, First Responder and BLS training for free to qualifying volunteers, and it's pretty common with other Colorado 501C-3 agencies.

Our "qualifications" are a minimum number of shifts per month and mandatory (free) bi-monthly training at Base (dinner is provided to some degree).

If you have the ability and the time, volunteer with your local agency (strong stomach strongly recommended)!

Trisha
 
Let's see I have been a EMT Basic since 1984...okay I feel old now. I had a brief stint when I was a EMT-Intermediate (That is the level between a Basic EMT and Paramedic).

444, very good job on nailing it squarely on the head as to why CPR doesn't do anything. I don't know how many times I have ran a call and everyone is just looking at the patient.

One word of caution about the Wilderness First Aid or EMT. That program was developed with a eye toward there being a LONG time before you can get the patient to definative care. I am talking 12-30 hours before you can get the patient to definative care. I talked to a guy from Transylvania county who was in the Swiftwater rescue class this weekend. When they have to hike back into a patient they are looking at least a 2 mile hike before they reach the patient.
 
Billy,

One reason that I like the Wilderness First Aid format, as an adjunct to a basic class, is that it does address gunshot wounds (obviously, they are thinking "hunting accident" rather than "gunfight survivor") and for firing range personnel since ranges tend to be located in desolate areas that are a good ways from definitive care. We timelined it from my house in the city to the nearest Level I trauma center and it ran over an hour. From the nearest range, it ran over two hours.:(

Thanks to all for the input,

Gomez
 
Here's another related question:

One of our team has stated that he will not take the class with the rest of us due to his concern that someone 'trained' in trauma care who applies the technique incorrectly or otherwise botches the job is open to legal destruction by the victim.

I could care less myself, but would like to know just for the sake of knowing: How much of an issue is this, really? Does anyone have any evidence of anything like this occuring (after the Good Samaritan laws were passed)?

- Gabe
 
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Paul, good point about being that far from a trauma center. In Western NC there is only one trauma center and that is in Asheville (3+ hours from Transylvania County, please don't ask how I know the exact driving time). Just some of the wilderness class teach some methods and techniques that altough they are interesting even in the 3 hour arena are not needed. I know a buddy of mine was designing a scenerio for some Wilderness Med class that required that they stay with the victim overnight before extraction. Basically wound care for a GSW is the same as any other penterating wound. Keep the red gooey stuff in is good. With all of that said I would not try to talk someone out of a Wilderness Med class.

Gabe, understand that in this day and age someone can sue you for the color of your shirt. That said as long as you stay within your scope of care you should be alright. What I mean by that is do what you are trained. The phrases "well I read it in a book once" or "I say a picture of this" is bad, very bad. Really and trully most trauma care is pretty basic. There isn't a whole lot you can screw up. I doubt anyone is going to try to push fluids or tube someone without training. But I do tend to get surprised a lot these days. 444 what is your take on it?

Edited to add:
Paul I just reread your post your talking about taking Wilderness First Aid in addition to a Basic First Aid. I think that would be great the Basic class should give you a basis so you know when to do which.
 
GRD:
I think the Good Samaritan laws pretty much ended that, but I'm not 100% sure.

Kharn
 
If your friend took the class, he would discover that one of the first chapters in the book deals with Medical-Legal Considerations.

It sounds like what he is talking about is being sued for Negligence. Let me quote from a book: Lawsuits involving patient care usually reult from civil claims of negligence: the failure to act as a resonable, prudent EMT or paramedic would act in similar circumstances. In most states, four elements must be proved for negligence to exist: 1) There was a duty to act. 2) There was a breach of duty by not acting or failing to act in a a reasonable, prudent manner, whereby the required standard of care was not observed. 3) There was damage to the patient 4) The breach was the proximate cause of the damage.
If you don't work as a EMT or paramedic, and even if you do but you are off duty; you have no duty to act.
Good Samaritan Legislation: Good Samaritan legislation exists in some form in all 50 states. The intent of these laws is to encourage people to help others without fear of litigation when an emergency arises. As a rule, a person who provides emergency first aid in good faith and in a manner that another person with similar training would provide is covered by these laws. However these laws do not generally protect health care professionals from acts of gross negligence, reckless disr4egard, or willful or wanton conduct. They also do not generally apply to paid on-duty EMS employees because they ARE required to act.
 
GRD:

More info on first responder training:

http://www.firstrespondertraining.com/

They have a state by state map. I took the course through a local technical college. Maybe something similar is available. This is the same training given to people going through tech school for law enforcement. It may be worth checking with colleges that offer LE programs. Hope this helps.

Ryan
 
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