Red Cross Advanced First-Aid Courses?

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BerettaNut92

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Has anyone taken these two courses? If I wanted to learn more about ditch medicine, would these be the ticket or would I be better off waiting for a specialized tactical emergency medicine course?

Emergency Response

Description This 54 hour course is designed for those interested in advanced level first aid skills. It includes CPR/AED for the Professional Rescuer, injuries and sudden illness, Preventing Disease Transmission, Oxygen Administration and Emergency Childbirth.
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and

Title 22 First Aid for Public Safety Personnel

Description This 15 hour course trains firefighters, peace officers, lifeguards and other first responders in the knowledge and skills necessary to help sustain life, reduce pain and minimize the consequences of injury or sudden illness until more advanced medical help can arrive. Meets requirements of Title 22 of the California Code of Regulations.
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Look at your community college near you and see if they offer Emergency Medical Technician. Its a semester class, but more info. Look for the phone number for your local Red Cross Chapter in the phone book or on the web. Give them a call, they should be able to put you in the right direction. Also classes like that are normally offered at recreation centers, in my area.

I went through the same thought process and I took the EMT course. Took longer, but gave me more knowledge, which I never know when I will need, but has been helpfull more than a few times while waiting for help to arrive.


National Capitol Chapter
Instructor of the following, CPR, Standard First Aid, CPR for the Professional Rescuer, Safety Training for Swim Coaches.

EMT, NOT CERTIFIED

Here it is on the web on the left, by zip, you can get the info for your local chapter http://www.redcross.org/

John
 
Take an EMT course. I just got my certification and it was very fun and interesting. One sememster at community college.
 
it was 7 credits when i took it here in PA 2 years ago. The PA cirriculum is also 26 hours longer than the national registry

i took it over the summer. Every monday wednesday and thursday for 3 hours and every other saturday for 8 hours. It is an intense course.
 
I took "First Responder" from the Red Cross once upon a time.. were I to do it over, I likely would have done EMT just for more field experience and school credit. Either one will give you quite a bit of info.

That said, they both assume an otherwise functioning society and specialized tools. That is, if you don't plan to stock airways, an O2 bottle, an AED, etc etc etc in your apartment/car, and work from the premise of "just package 'em up quick for the local ER to take care of" it likely won't be what you're looking for.

Though I've not taken it, I believe a Wilderness First Responder or the like would be more what you're looking for, should "SHTF" be your driving motive, as it's predicated on making do and being without access to a hospital for extended periods.

-K
 
Skunk, it would help if you mentioned what you are interesting in learning. What types of situations you would like to be able to handle etc. Whether the classes you mention will fulfil those goals would be hard to say without more information.
You use the term "ditch medicine". I am not sure exactly what that means, although I remember reading something about it in SWAT magazine or something like that.
All of the tactical medic classes I am aware of are for medical professionals who work with, or in support of tactical teams such as SWAT. They are going to require you to be certified as a paramedic, nurse, MD........ BEFORE taking the class. One of the best known tactical medic classes requires you to have a department letter for admission.
By the way, I have worked as a paramedic, professionally for the last 21 years.
 
I tend to think for practical application a first responder course would get your feet wet! Then you could tackle a EMT-Basic Class. The problem ith taking an EMT course is that you can be exposed to material, but if you do not get to apply it it is lost. Having been an EMS provider for 25 years I have some depth of knowledge to base this on.

I will relate something that was taught to me a long time ago!
What is a paramedic without equipment? Answer: An EMT
What is a EMT without equipment? Answer: Informed care giver
What is an Informed Care Giver? Answer someone with ability to improvise and adapt "stuff" to meet the needs of a situation!

Perhaps this is a bit smart assed. But, I can assure that I have enough initials after my name to make this observation. You see that saying that a little bit of knowledge is a dangerous thing? Is all to true when it comes to prompt and efficient medical care. Experience is the only teacher that one really learns from! And, taking a class in EMS is great, but if you do not use it? Well?

A first responder trained provider can do what most of us are supposed to do. Support the ABC's. Anything else is a bonus!
 
You come across a unconscious person, what three things do you check for?

Watches, wallets & rings. :eek: Hey, a paramedic taught me that at the academy. We dummies thought A-B-C (airway, breathing, circulation).:eek:
 
I took first aid then Advanced about 5 years later then EMT @ 4yrs later. After 10 yrs I let that expire (no longer member of Ambulance) Then took a Advanced class (was required for LEO job...You had to be current Adv or above when you applied but NOT keep current oncey accepted and city would NOT support recerts.) :(
Anyway I felt the EMT was most useful ESP as I had old dog who kept current as instructor. He was better them Richard/Dean/Anderson at improv. We did lots of role playing with NO fancy gear. Duct tape and a pocket knife can do wonders. I doubt we spent 30 min on air splints/vacume ones/padded boards/etc. Likely a hour using items found in any house/garage Of actualy hands on and him checking our work. How to get pure O2 in remote areas if we don't have access to it. How to get a airway when just a reposition/move tongue won't do. (His reasoning is if the person does not get air they are dead so only thing you can harm is mortisions cost to fix up body)
I look now at my jump kit. There is enough cling Curlex/duct tape/4X4/suture packs/cpr/couple nasual canulas/holster kit/etc to outfit a small group.
I did lots of ER time after the required hours. (maybe 6?) Dr.s let me do lots of neat stuff (remember this was early 80s) :) :) Once they knew you didn't mind blood and would do exactly what they said and help they wanted you there. I considered changing my mind from LEO to Medical.
 
Required ER time for EMT? I had to do 16, in two 8-hour shifts.

I'd never seen a bullet hole in a person that close up before. Very educational.
 
Skunk,
I've taken Red Cross courses off and on for the last 33 years, and I hate to have to say it, but I think they're out of touch and hopelessly bogged-down in bureaucratic procedure, red tape, and political correctness.

If you want to learn real-world stuff that works, spend the money and take the Wilderness First Responder ('woofer') course. I'm not sure who offers it, but if you Google it, you'll find it. It's very expensive and hard to find, but very, very worth it. WFR is *the* course that climbers, whitewater paddlers, and expedition outfitters take. Not only do they teach you the techniques, but they also run through real-life simulated situations and force you to make tough choices under time constraints.

If you're budget won't allow you to take WFR, then the Red Cross course might be OK.
 
I also did about 16 hours' worth of ER clinical time, part of an EMT class taught by the local hospital. I took the tests and got state certified, then decided it wasn't for me career-wise. I think for what you're wanting, something more basic would probably be more appropriate. EMT training is very equipment-intensive, you use a lot of BLS equipment like plastic airways, immobilization/extraction devices for moving someone at risk of spinal injury, automated defibrillator, learn to take vital signs, etc.

If that's what you want, all well and good. But if you're like most people, you won't have any of that stuff on hand (besides more basic stuff like bandages), so I'd look for a course that teaches airway/breathing/circulation plus an "improvised survival" slant - use of handy straight objects and a roll of tape for splinting a fracture, grab that frozen bag of peas out of the freezer to help bring down a heat stroke victim's temperature, etc. There is one piece of equipment you SHOULD have around, though, and that's disposable plastic gloves.

The hours in the ER stick with me more than anything else, one patient in particular. Home invaders herded a couple into the basement, made them stand facing a wall and shot them both from behind. We got the woman, she was hit twice. One was ugly but superficial; the bullet clipped her in the neck way left of the spine, hit nothing major and took out a couple of teeth on the way through. The other had hit her left lung before exiting her chest. I held a pressure bandage over the exit wound while the doc put a chest tube in, and let me tell you, people have some amazing strength when they're involuntarily reacting to something extremely painful. :what: It took quite a few of us to hold her still enough for the doc to do his thing.

Since you're thinking SHTF scenarios BUT first-aid skills are handy in everyday life too, I'd go for the 22 hour "first responder" one and then supplement it with reading up on wilderness/improv first-aid techniques for when normal resources may not be available.
 
I find it interesting that Skunk posted this question, then never acknowledged any of the posts. I guess we are talking to ourselves.
 
444, still letting all the recommendations sink in and still thinking about options.

Current plan is to take some of the more urban type of first aid (i.e. count on the pro's showing up soon) before venturing off into the wilderness/survival type of stuff, since I don't find myself out in the woods often.

Probably will look into a community college semester some time later this year or next year. Budget's still tight.
 
I have taken the basic first aid course several times over the years, along with the CPR course. It never hurts to refresh those skills.
 
Great question, Skunk. I was on the same path, looked into 1st Responder, then decided EMT-B would be more worthwhile. I have passed my practicals for the local class, and tonight is the final written exam. National Registry tests are in June. Wish they were coming up sooner, 'cuz I start EMT-Intermediate class in 2 weeks. I am taking these classes at night at a local comm college.

Some thoughts:

1)
Current plan is to take some of the more urban type of first aid (i.e. count on the pro's showing up soon) before venturing off into the wilderness/survival type of stuff, since I don't find myself out in the woods often
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One of the real values of the wilderness-oriented courses is that they assume you won't have a lot of med-specific gear, either because you didn't want to carry the weight or Mr. Murphy bit you. These courses (WFR, WEMT) focus a lot on improvisation. If you have an urban medical situation, improvisation will still serve you well, even more so in a SHTF scenario. I plan to add WEMT to my skillset/certs. Do a google on "Wilderness Medical Associates" and "SOLO Wilderness Medicine".

2) While urban/"load and go" EMS does assume HEAVILY that the hospital or ALS is relatively close, you still will learn the core principles of the body's response to life-threatening conditions. Lower-end courses tell you what the body does but not why. This core understanding will help you do the right things whether you're 1 block from the hospital or out in the middle of nowhere. Don't get bogged down in details about equipment or step-by-step procedures. Learn how the body works, what's important and when, and you'll be ahead of 99% of most people.

3) Here's the big reason why I think formal EMS education is great: even as a student you get real-world experience in the ambulance or ED. In my EMT-B class I've only ridden on four 12-hour dayshifts. In that short bit I've seen & actively helped with: head & limb trauma, seizures, strokes, cardiac compromise, burns, severe respiratory problems, and more. I've already assessed more patients and seen more things than most 1st responders will ever see. Not because I'm better, but because they didn't get the opportunity or the access. I've been at the local trauma center and been ushered into an ED room by the doc to see what he was doing for a burn/trauma patient I helped bring in. These experiences are like the difference between square-range drills and Simunitions: there is no comparison, and the training value is awesome.

Find out about EMS night classes in your area, including financial aid. It has been very worthwhile for me, and I'm still keeping my day job.
 
I am still confused as to what is taught in one of these "wilderness", "ditch", "SHTF" courses.
The basic knowlege would have to be the same. I suppose they could discuss using improvised equipment, but to me, that would be common sense.
I seriously doubt that they are going to let you in on some secret ways to heal the sick and injured that don't require a hospital.
 
It depends on where you are too...If you take the course in an urban area, your first hand experience, ie, third rides and Ex rm stuff will be oriented to those in that environment...If you get a chance to take the same course in a more remote setting, they will stress and provide you with more settings in THAT environment...Both good, and you really rely on the instructors and how they apply the knowledge. If there are several to work with, you can get several different approaches to the same scenario...and I agree with everyone that said that if you don't use it, you lose it, but...the level of attention and repetition in the Basic, Int, and -P courses can stick with you a long time if you really get into it and lucked out getting really good instuctors...All the medics are good...but some are better at passing the knowledge and experience than others...If I had to do over, I'd still take the Basic course but in a more remote area to start with...If you're already a distance away from any advanced help, you get to do a lot more patient care...No matter what, you're on the right track, get the basics and adapt, adapt, adapt!
Then you can be like us angels of mercy...LOL...
g2

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