paintballdude902
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ive always read the 7.62x54r is inbetween a .30-06 and a .308
First centerfire rifle
- Thread starter gondorian
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scythefwd
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painballdude
The .308 and the .30-06 are basically the same thing (until you get above what the .308 can shoot with the -06).
Guys,
Don't be down on the Mosin. It is what it is. What it isn't is an expensive rifle, or one that will shoot like one.
What it is is a rifle that you can beat to hell and still expect it to hit the broad side of a barn. It is also a very cheap way to find out if you are recoil sensitive
The .308 and the .30-06 are basically the same thing (until you get above what the .308 can shoot with the -06).
Guys,
Don't be down on the Mosin. It is what it is. What it isn't is an expensive rifle, or one that will shoot like one.
What it is is a rifle that you can beat to hell and still expect it to hit the broad side of a barn. It is also a very cheap way to find out if you are recoil sensitive
Hostile Amish
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Either a Mossberg, Sako, or a cheap single-shot.
paintballdude902
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yeah with heavy bullets its between what the .308 can effectively throw and the .30-06
im lookin at my hornady book now
it will throw a 190gr bullet the same as a .308 and a little slower (200fps) than the '06
i cant find ballistic info
im lookin at my hornady book now
it will throw a 190gr bullet the same as a .308 and a little slower (200fps) than the '06
i cant find ballistic info
Marlin 336W 30-30
I hand load for the 30-30, and I have a few different loads for different applications.
I have a lead boolit load with Trail Boss going 1100 fps (maybe). It is a pussy cat, and fun to shoot to 50-75 yards.
I have a full power hunting load with a Winchester 150 grain PowerPoint. Shoots at 2370ish FPS, and puts 3 in one hole at 100 yards.
I have another hunting load that my wife shoots with a 125 grain Sierra HPFN at 2150 fps. At 100 yards it shoot .5" 5 shot groups.
I have a load with H335 and/or Reloder7 that pushes a 110 grain HPFN half jacket right at 2600 fps.
I have a 170 grain Hornady FP that will go 2200 fps with H335, and shoots just under an inch with 5 shot groups.
You just can't beat a good 30-30. I would and have shot deer past 200 yards with my full power loads, and I have shot and killed deer in the woods with my 125 grain load.
A .243 is a darn good round as well, but I prefer the lever guns. They are quick and light. With a receiver sight you can really get a quick shot.
If I was going with a .243, I might opt for a 6mm Remington. Although the guns might cost more in a 6mm Remington.
A .243 in a Marlin XS-7 would be a fine choice, but then you have the cost of a scope, and the .243 isn't a versatile if you are a hand loader.
Good luck with your adventure.
I hand load for the 30-30, and I have a few different loads for different applications.
I have a lead boolit load with Trail Boss going 1100 fps (maybe). It is a pussy cat, and fun to shoot to 50-75 yards.
I have a full power hunting load with a Winchester 150 grain PowerPoint. Shoots at 2370ish FPS, and puts 3 in one hole at 100 yards.
I have another hunting load that my wife shoots with a 125 grain Sierra HPFN at 2150 fps. At 100 yards it shoot .5" 5 shot groups.
I have a load with H335 and/or Reloder7 that pushes a 110 grain HPFN half jacket right at 2600 fps.
I have a 170 grain Hornady FP that will go 2200 fps with H335, and shoots just under an inch with 5 shot groups.
You just can't beat a good 30-30. I would and have shot deer past 200 yards with my full power loads, and I have shot and killed deer in the woods with my 125 grain load.
A .243 is a darn good round as well, but I prefer the lever guns. They are quick and light. With a receiver sight you can really get a quick shot.
If I was going with a .243, I might opt for a 6mm Remington. Although the guns might cost more in a 6mm Remington.
A .243 in a Marlin XS-7 would be a fine choice, but then you have the cost of a scope, and the .243 isn't a versatile if you are a hand loader.
Good luck with your adventure.
scythefwd
Member
PBD,
Ahh, I have the -06 and the x54R at about 100-120 fps difference at 200 and 220 gr. I don't have load data for the 190's, but there is only a 65 fps difference at 185gr (2697 fps vs 2632 fps).
Since you can use the same bullets for the .308 and the -06 (well for the most part, who shoots 250 gr bullets from a .308??), I would expect them to have very similar results ballistically at similar fps. I do have the .308 win about 200 fps behind at those weights to. I am using a Lee manual, which could explain the difference in our data points Have fun
Ahh, I have the -06 and the x54R at about 100-120 fps difference at 200 and 220 gr. I don't have load data for the 190's, but there is only a 65 fps difference at 185gr (2697 fps vs 2632 fps).
Since you can use the same bullets for the .308 and the -06 (well for the most part, who shoots 250 gr bullets from a .308??), I would expect them to have very similar results ballistically at similar fps. I do have the .308 win about 200 fps behind at those weights to. I am using a Lee manual, which could explain the difference in our data points
Have fun txman321
Member
i myself have a mosin nagant I wouldnt use it as my deer rifle tho, I got a seperate rifle for deer I have a Mossberg ATR 100 in .270 I bought it about a month ago for my first deer gun and I love the thing. You should definately consider it.
the mosin would be my second choice if i didnt have the atr. but as people mentioned they got some recoil. I think they kick less then a 12ga so if you can handle the 12ga i think a mosin is a walk in the park
the mosin would be my second choice if i didnt have the atr. but as people mentioned they got some recoil. I think they kick less then a 12ga so if you can handle the 12ga i think a mosin is a walk in the park
About mosins, I realize that they are not the best, and I do not intend to be a "sheep." But, they happen to be low in cost to buy and to feed. I know that low cost doesn't mean a thing if it doesn't do what you want it to do, so that is why I'm asking people who have more experience if it would be a good idea. I know that it has significant recoil, so I'd have to shoot it first to know if it would be too much for me.
A lot of the options you all listed I've heard of before, and I definitely am considering the marlin xs7, NEF handi-rifle and the savage, if I decide not to get a mosin. I know that any of these would be more accurate and have warranties and all that so I'm thinking about that. The only thing that is really holding me back form getting one of those is that I really like the hefty sturdy feel of the mosin, especially compared to the xs7, and to some extent the handi-rifle which feel flimsy if you hold them right after a mosin.
I hadn't really heard of the marlin 336 before, as I'm not that into lever guns, but I will look into it for sure. One last thing, I'm pretty big, nearly 6'2" and big long guns shoulder comfortably. Thanks again for all your insight
A lot of the options you all listed I've heard of before, and I definitely am considering the marlin xs7, NEF handi-rifle and the savage, if I decide not to get a mosin. I know that any of these would be more accurate and have warranties and all that so I'm thinking about that. The only thing that is really holding me back form getting one of those is that I really like the hefty sturdy feel of the mosin, especially compared to the xs7, and to some extent the handi-rifle which feel flimsy if you hold them right after a mosin.
I hadn't really heard of the marlin 336 before, as I'm not that into lever guns, but I will look into it for sure. One last thing, I'm pretty big, nearly 6'2" and big long guns shoulder comfortably. Thanks again for all your insight
Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow
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Based on that, I'd get a Lee-Enfield No. 4, Mk 1 (first choice) or Lee Enfield No1., Mk III (those are in .303 Brit), or a Mauser M48 Yugo or Mosin Nagant 91/30 for the cheap ammo and cheap initial purchase price.
txman321
Member
note softpoint mosin nagant ammo runs around 20 dollars a box thats up there in price just a thing to consider
panrobercik
Member
At 19 you have the eyes for open sights, there is no reason to not to go with Mosin Nagant.
Yes, the hunting ammo is on expensive side but you get your training (surplus) ammo for dirt cheap.
Nobody gets married to their rifles. You can't loose much on a Mosin if you don't like it. Get a recoil pad and enjoy it.
Yes, the hunting ammo is on expensive side but you get your training (surplus) ammo for dirt cheap.
Nobody gets married to their rifles. You can't loose much on a Mosin if you don't like it. Get a recoil pad and enjoy it.
P.B.Walsh
Member
What about a slug shotgun, for 100 or less yards, I know, I know it isn't a centerfire, but just giving my $.02 worth of opinion?
Other than that just go with what you want, and make sure that it's exactly what you want, good luck
Other than that just go with what you want, and make sure that it's exactly what you want, good luck
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dagger dog
Member
I don't know about the rest of y'all but most of the WWII battle rifles, are not very user friendly for someone to start out on, they (Moisn, Mauser,Enfield,Arisaka, Springfeild etc.) are full caliber hard recoiling, shoulder stomping, trigger jerking ,flinching ,steel butt, plate non beginner rifles and best left to military buffs, or fellas with more experiance.
Get yourself a Savage Model 14 Classic in .243, it will go for < 650 bucks if you shop. It is dead accurate, quality, good looking, and worthy of passing it on to an heir.
The .243 Winchester, is a great white tail deer caliber, can be loaded up or down from varmint to mulie if you ever decide to do it.
Get yourself a Savage Model 14 Classic in .243, it will go for < 650 bucks if you shop. It is dead accurate, quality, good looking, and worthy of passing it on to an heir.
The .243 Winchester, is a great white tail deer caliber, can be loaded up or down from varmint to mulie if you ever decide to do it.
ARNETT44
Member
My first real hunting rifle the Marlin Lever action in 35 Remington, took Hog and Dear. Really wish I had it back today.
Uncle Mike
Member
100 yards! 
Well at that distance ... it aint rocket science or anything.
Hogs!..... A Mosin-Nagant is a great rifle for the money, I hunted hogs in florida with one for some time.... turns em' right off!
At the distance your goning to use this thing, and even out to 300 yards or so, I'm being modest,a M-N will do ANYTHING you ask it.
If your wanting a 'new' rifle that is "less costly" then I should look at the Stevens 200, say in .308 or .30-06(my choice).
We sell a lot of the Mosins, people love them, especially the 38's, they are a bit heartier than the model 44's, but the 44's are good. If a man throws a few bucks more he could have a Stevens 200, Marlin XS-7 or Howa.(I like to buy American, when I can)
By the time you invest in a scope mount and hunting ammo for a Mosin... you would probably be better off getting the Stevens in one of the aforementioned calibers... at least you'll be able to find ammo for the Stevens pretty much anywhere you go.
Well at that distance ... it aint rocket science or anything. Hogs!..... A Mosin-Nagant is a great rifle for the money, I hunted hogs in florida with one for some time.... turns em' right off!
At the distance your goning to use this thing, and even out to 300 yards or so, I'm being modest,a M-N will do ANYTHING you ask it.
If your wanting a 'new' rifle that is "less costly" then I should look at the Stevens 200, say in .308 or .30-06(my choice).
We sell a lot of the Mosins, people love them, especially the 38's, they are a bit heartier than the model 44's, but the 44's are good. If a man throws a few bucks more he could have a Stevens 200, Marlin XS-7 or Howa.(I like to buy American, when I can)
By the time you invest in a scope mount and hunting ammo for a Mosin... you would probably be better off getting the Stevens in one of the aforementioned calibers... at least you'll be able to find ammo for the Stevens pretty much anywhere you go.
Redneck with a 40
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Looking at my Hodgdon 2009 reloading annual, in bullet weights up to 180 grains, the .308 gets within 80 fps of the 30-06. Up to 180 grains, not a damn bit of difference, other than the .308 is doing it with less powder, more efficiency and less wear on the barrel.
Also, if you want a short barrel, like my 20" SPS Tactical, the .308 is much better.
As far as ammo cost goes, I reload my own, so its 42 cents/round, non factor for me.
Also, if you want a short barrel, like my 20" SPS Tactical, the .308 is much better.
As far as ammo cost goes, I reload my own, so its 42 cents/round, non factor for me.
I know that in theory the best thing for me to do would be to work up gradually to .223 and then .243 and then something bigger to avoid developing bad habits. But in practice didn't millions upon millions of young men receive "full caliber hard recoiling, shoulder stomping, trigger jerking ,flinching ,steel butt, plate non beginner rifles" in WWII to shoot the enemies of their mother country? And were not many of these young people completely unacquainted with firearms prior to their military enlistment? I have handled mausers and enfields also, and I'm wondering if these have any particular advantages over mosins, because I've found that they are about twice as expensive ($200 vs. $100 for mosin.)
If I got a mosin I wouldn't scope it, it would just be my low cost rifle. The only problem with this is that I would want a scoped rifle later on. If I got a scoped rifle now I could resist wanting one later on, and probably resist getting a mosin too, but I would have to spend more now. I know that I could follow the standard gun forum wisdom and just get both a mosin and a savage stevens or marlin xs7, but I can't financially justify two rifles of similar capabilities like that. Some may say that I'm overlooking good lever guns, which I am at this point. I'll see if I can test one out and if one calls to me I would listen to it.
As for a slug gun, my plan is to get a shotgun next year and a rifle this year. I know that it could work for my purposes, but I want a rifle first.
If I got a mosin I wouldn't scope it, it would just be my low cost rifle. The only problem with this is that I would want a scoped rifle later on. If I got a scoped rifle now I could resist wanting one later on, and probably resist getting a mosin too, but I would have to spend more now. I know that I could follow the standard gun forum wisdom and just get both a mosin and a savage stevens or marlin xs7, but I can't financially justify two rifles of similar capabilities like that. Some may say that I'm overlooking good lever guns, which I am at this point. I'll see if I can test one out and if one calls to me I would listen to it.
As for a slug gun, my plan is to get a shotgun next year and a rifle this year. I know that it could work for my purposes, but I want a rifle first.
May I suggest a 6.5 x 55?
I have a CZ 550 in 6.5 x 55 and it will fit your bill for everything else, except maybe the price. Mine is the full stock: http://www.cz-usa.com/product_detail.php?id=17
Here's a review of my gun just after I bought it: http://www.huntingnet.com/forum/tm.aspx?m=2530213&mpage=1
6.5 x 55 is not a common caliper, but before you dismiss it, do a search on the Internet. It is a great caliper for most game in NA, has a low recoil and it's very accurate. Ammo price is from $0.37/round and up.
Good luck in your search!
I have a CZ 550 in 6.5 x 55 and it will fit your bill for everything else, except maybe the price. Mine is the full stock: http://www.cz-usa.com/product_detail.php?id=17
Here's a review of my gun just after I bought it: http://www.huntingnet.com/forum/tm.aspx?m=2530213&mpage=1
6.5 x 55 is not a common caliper, but before you dismiss it, do a search on the Internet. It is a great caliper for most game in NA, has a low recoil and it's very accurate. Ammo price is from $0.37/round and up.
Good luck in your search!
xmanpike
Member
I personally have always been a fan of the .270 win. Its a great bolt action rifle that is diverse enough for lots of different game. Accurate, fast +-3000fps, common enough to find ammo for. I love my Rem 700 in this caliber and you may be able to find some used for under the $400
Maverick223
Member
I would look at all of the following: .243, .30 carbine, 30-30, .308, 8mm Mauser, .35 Rem., .357 (in a carbine), and .44 magnum (in carbine); a .243 (bolt gun) or 7.62x39 (like an SKS) would probably be my pick.
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