First Load Development

Soupy44

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Dec 21, 2008
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I've been reloading for bullseye for about 6 years now, but that's just finding what's accurate.

I've started a project with 3500 9mm V-Crowns 147gr I got cheap to mimic my self defence ammo, Winchester Ranger 147gr. I bought some N330 since I heard it was THE 9mm powder.

I got the following average velocities:

TP9SA (4.9in barrel)
3.9gr 914fps
4.0gr 918fps
4.1gr 947fps
4.2gr 948fps
4.3gr 954fps
Ranger 988fps

TP9SFX (5.2in barrel)
3.9gr 937fps
4.0gr 952fps
4.1gr 957fps
4.2gr 981fps
4.3gr 999fps
Ranger 1027fps

4.3gr is the max load according to VV load data. I saw no pressure signs.

I feel going to 4.4gr will get me to the Ranger velocity. Anyone have experience with this rough load?
 
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I try to stay in the lines of published data since I don’t have access to pressure sensors. You can’t count on reading cases for pressure signs in 9mm unless the case blows out and then you know. I do chrono and that’s related, so you’re under what VV says should be the V. However, VV tends to be very linear and well behaved.
VV data also specs 1.142“ usually and COL has a big impact on pressure in the small 9mm case. What is your COL?
I had to stray outside the lines once by a couple of tenths, but that was based on a lot of load data on my guns and my process.
Do you really need to get another 28 fps?
 
I saw no pressure signs.

In general, a reloader has no way of seeing "pressure signs" with any meaning until they are EXTREMELY over pressure.

Primer flattening, flow, and pin cratering is hugely dependent upon the specific primer cups being used, as well as dependent upon the geometry of the firing pin (and power of the striker/hammer spring). Case head expansion is a function of the brass strength and chamber geometry. Brass and primer cups are designed with sufficient safety margin over their standard operating design parameters that you should expect to never see pressure signs at max pressure loads - the brass and primers are not living on the razor edge of potential failure on every shot. So you should NOT expect to see "pressure signs" from a max load, nor from a load notably ABOVE SAAMI max pressure.

Contextually, since you are considering 9mm Para - remember 2 things:

1) SAAMI standards apply a Maximum Average Pressure (MAP), as well as have tolerances for Maximum Probable Lot Mean (MPLM) and Maximum Probable Sample Mean (MPSM). The MAP for 9mm Para is 35kpsi, but the MPLM is 36.1kpsi, and the MPSM is 37.8kpsi... Meaning the brass and primer cups, at a MINIMUM, must be able to tolerate within their design standards loads which exceed the target MAP by approximately 10%. The MPSM of 37.8kpsi will not be the maximum pressure measured of a sample set, it is the maximum "mean" - maximum arithmetic average - of the sample set, so half of the rounds within that sample set will be higher otherwise a lot would be considered to not be SAAMI compliant. So at minimum, you should expect to see no signs for at LEAST a 10% over-charge.

But...

2) The same 9mm brass and primers are used for +P loads as for standard loads. So with a 35kpsi SAAMI MAP for standard pressure 9mm, those cases and primers are also known to tolerate +P pressures, which are 38.5kpsi MAP, 39.7kpsi MPLM, and 41.5kpsi MPSM... This means that 9mm brass and primers shouldn't be showing pressure signs for even up over 41,500psi.... That's an 18.6% overcharge by pressure....

I feel going to 4.4gr will get me to the Ranger velocity.

Looking at your data, I'd bet HEAVILY against 4.4grn achieving the speed you've posted for the Ranger ammunition. Plotting the data you shared, and without doing any error analysis, going up to 4.4grn would increase the speed in your SA to 969fps, and in your FX to 1011fps, you'd have to be 4.5 to achieve 980 and 1127fps, respectively...

That said, your TP9's are (indirectly) rated to shoot +P ammo, so you CAN have some confidence that you can likely push that speed, if you feel the need. Just recognize that it would be a 9mm+P load, and as such, you may want to increase your recoil spring rate, and might want to confirm with Sig that the bullet will handle the pressure and speed (shouldn't be a problem, but worth the phone call).
 
I have almost never matched speed trying to duplicate factory ammo if accuracy was the goal. The times I matched speed, the accuracy fell off or the recoil was much different. Unless you plan to use those rounds for self defense and they have a set speed in order to open up, close enough should be fine as long as they are accurate enough and the recoil impulse isn’t too different.
 
Sorry, should have posted I'm using VVs 1.142" OAL.

Accuracy was about the same with all the loads.

I'm leaning to just going with 4.3gr. It was very manageable to shoot though that might just be the whole 2 handed thing vs one handed bullseye.

I've run into an unexpected issue, my 9mm sizing die broke. Guess no test round will be loaded for a bit.
 
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Turns out I set my seating die using a shorter bullet. I got my bullets as blemished from American reloader. Thought I had a nicer one when I set everything up...incorrect. Found a few nice ones and they needed to be set a little deeper. I get 1014fps in the SFX and 988fps in the SA.

Some research told me V-Crowns prefer 995fps. Guess this is about as good as it will get. Guess I'll need a slower burning powder next time.
 
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Yes, those two came up a lot in my research. I went with 330 based on a number of friends liking it for 9mm. Come to find out they weren't interested in anything near max loads.
 
Sorry, should have posted I'm using VVs 1.142" OAL.

Accuracy was about the same with all the loads.

I'm leaning to just going with 4.3gr. It was very manageable to shoot though that might just be the whole 2 handed thing vs one handed bullseye.

I've run into an unexpected issue, my 9mm sizing die broke. Guess no test round will be loaded for a bit.
What happened there?