First Reload Session!

[Rustynuts]

First, a thanks to all here helping out a newbie! I managed to run 100 through in little over 2-3 hours, for a blazing speed of 33 per hour. That includes all the stops/starts, bullet pulls, reweighing, etc. Had a few problems as shown in the pic below, a couple primer non-feeds, spilled powder from forgetting to push the guides back in, etc.! Lost one bullet into the powder feeder from the bullet puller, then proceeded to drop it into the powder bottle when trying to retrieve it from the feeder! Oh well, it'll have to set there until I empty the bottle.

Here's some of the major problems I had. I was using brand new Starline +P brass, so I think the flare wasn't enough (I had set the flare with once used brass), and/or the bullet feeder wasn't aligning. I think the +P brass was too stiff, should have run them through re-sizing/expanding first, then loaded. I could feel when this was happening, but by the time I felt it, the damage was done. Finished rounds after. My OAL seemed to drift some, between 1.185 and 1.29 with 1.2 being the min from the charts I had. Anything under 1.21 was pulled and reloaded. Out of 100 bullets, ended up with 90 good ones! Oh well.

 

[jfh]

You are correct:

1. you don't have enough belling from the powder through expanding die.

2. until you have the rest of the operation running smoothly, disconnect and set aside the bullet feeder. That is an enormous distraction from watching the powder drop.

Is the Powder measure dispensing properly? Do you have the chain return set up correctly?

3. The LOA variance is more than you will find once you figure out how to tweak your dies.

To sort out the expander and belling, do this:

1. Size about six cases--they don't need to be primed, but you may find it easiest to just run them over to the #3 station, where you can pull the case retainer out easily and take them out.

2. remove the auto indexer lever, and remove the Powder Measure. Put the 'funnel' in the expander die, and Put index marks on the press body, die body, and stem knobs--I just use a fine-point permanent marker to do this.

3. go to work tweaking the die body adjustment until the case is a flared the way you think you want it. Tighten up the lock nut.

As you may recall, Lee recommends backing up the PTE body about from 1 turn from firm contact with the shell plate. I find about 3/4 turn back is a good place to start.

Once you think you have the kind of flare you want, manually index the plate and try seating a bullet. Does it seat OK--i.e., no more crushing? It should be fairly smooth.

4. Take the case out and measure the LOA. Tweak the seating stem until you have the LOA you want. If you are careful here--start "too long"--you can use the same assembly and increase the seating until it is the LOA you want.

5. When you have the LOA you want, index it through to the FCD and see how the crimp looks. Check the LOA again to confirm your FCD is not set too deep to push the bullet down, too--it can happen.

Once you have the flare - seating - crimping down with these test cartridges, go back to the beginning and run cases in again starting at station one--but with no powder. Take them off the press one at a time as they finish and line them up; measure the LOAs.

They will probably vary slightly--increasing in LOA perhaps .003 as they come off the press. At the end of the run, they should decrease slightly. If the overal total variance is greater that .005 (not +-, but total), then you could re-do the die setup again.

Jim H.

 

[swiss7.5]

you just need to bell them more. Also if you are using different lenght brass the bell will be different. I also learned the hard way and i have done the exact same thing. Different types of bullets seat better or worse depending but they will all seat without the "crush" if the bell is large enough.

 

[1911NM]

New Starline brass is very hard. Just had this discussion on another forum. I would suggest checking your belling to make sure the bullet sets in the brass not on it, and also, with the new Starline brass, stand a bunch of 'em up on a (I learned the hard way) DISCARDED cookie sheet, and give 'em a squirt of Hornady Oneshot. Will help slide everything through. Good luck, have fun, and be safe.

 

[38 Super Auto]

I agree that you need more case mouth flare. You should flare the case mouths just enough that a bullet will sit in the case without being held. When you have it set correctly, it should be obvious.

There will be variation in case length, so you have to flare the case mouths a little more than minimum to ensure that even the shorter cases have sufficient flare. You'll see little lead shavings if you are loading cast bullets with insufficient flare.

If you have too much flare, you have issues with the case entering your seating or crimping die, so setup the correct amount of flare. Experience will help you.

Go slowly when you operate the press lever: you should develop a feel for force required for normal operation vs. abnormal events , e.g., when you are crushing the case, rock or other debris in the case being sized, case not aligned with die, etc.

 

[Walkalong]

Not so bad for the first time out, with a progressive no less. I learned slow on a single stage which made the jump to aprogressive much smoother.

You just jumped out in the deep end, so I would not worry about the "learning curve" you just experienced. You are well on your way to becoming a proficient reloader. No one gets there without a bump or two.

 

[Rustynuts]

Yep, took off the powder and bullet feeders and reset the expander die. Seems to work better now, then proceeded to size/expand 100 more cases. Crushes a couple due to the bullet feeder so I pulled it off for now until I get things smooth. Flare was great when I pulled them off right away, but when I went to town on the 100, the flare mysteriously disappeared. Got pissed, but then I remembered I was running them through the factory crimp! Then I just loosened the bullet feed guide and let them fly off there. The re-sizer die also seemed tight with these new cases.

 

[cornman]

Look fine to me. Long as the powder does not fall out you should be good to go. ;-)

 

[RustyFN]

I would agree with Walkalong. If this is your first press and first atempt you didn't do bad at all. I would also suggest to lose the bullet feeder until you get everything running the way you want. Just make sure your powder drops are correct. There is a lot going on at one time so just take your time and stay safe.
Rusty

 

[bfox]

Hi
I think you are on the right track .
Would say most people boogered up a few cases at first .

Like others posted I would ditch the bullet feeder till
you got everything else right .

Good Luck , It will get Better and Faster - Bill

 

[Rustynuts]

The bullet feeder is off now, but it actually worked pretty good. The problem was the belling and the stiff cases. I'm actually having more problem with the decapper staying down and the cases jamming as they go in the expanding die. The cases seem to get stuck off center going in and then I need to fiddle with it by hand.

 

[bfox]

I had to change the decapping pin before .
I left it in the press and tightened . You got to tighten it up pretty snug .
Are you sure you got the case retainer in far enough at the expanding Die ?

You should if you didn't post this on Glocktalk ?
They give the LM a hard time . Its Fun .
Just funning around , we could tell them run those 8 in the FCD
they will be just fine .

Bill

 

[Hikingman]

Remember Rule no. 3, when shooting your first reloaded round ever--Using a careful ONE-handed grip, and after sighting in on the bulleye, close BOTH eyes-just before you squeeze--you'll find out if quality control on that round was truly a serious issue...

Rule no. 1 - Protect Eyes, Ears, and others Around Me AT ALL TIMES when around firearms.
Rule no. 2 - ALWAYS aim in a safe direction whether unloaded or loaded.

 

[Rustynuts]

Definitely going to use safety glasses. Usually just use my normal glasses. And will be using my "cheap" Bersa, not my XD or Kimber! Watched EVERY case for powder and with the Lee Pro Powder there's little chance of double charges. Most possible problem might be bullet setback or extra low charge. I racked a JHP round through my 1911 and had no setback. The 1911's a pretty good test as it has an extra strong spring installed and 1911 feed ramps are almost vertical!

 

[WNTFW]

Rusty,
Not trying to cast despersions on your reloading. The first shots are always scary. I use my regular glasses or safety AND A FACESHIELD on certian things. Plus have another adult with you that can drive.

Later,
WNTFW

 

[FieroCDSP]

Congrats, Rusty!!! You're well on your way to cussing the hell out of the LM Long sleepless nights worrying about what OAL all of those loads ended up at (because you know they didn;t all hit their precise mark, right?)....
Thinking: "Did I double-charge that load of Unique... No, I couldn;t have...after all, Unique is incredibly bulky. There's no way I could fit a double charge in the case. No...No way... Could I? AArrggg!!!!"

Yep... this is a life. A man... his own ammo.... made with his own eight fingers.

You'll figure it out.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

The only thing I would have suggested is you make about 20 rounds and try then before you made up 100. If the charge is too light and the rounds won't cycle the slide you are going to hate pulling all those bullets!! LOL

 

[FieroCDSP]

Archangel, Shhhhhh!!! They're supposed to learn that the hard way.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

I was in a good mood!!

 

[zxcvbob]

Remember Rule no. 3, when shooting your first reloaded round ever--Using a careful ONE-handed grip, and after sighting in on the bulleye, close BOTH eyes-just before you squeeze--you'll find out if quality control on that round was truly a serious issue...

And don't forget to use your weak-side hand -- no sense in messing up your good one.

 

[345 DeSoto]

One thing I've found when reloading for .45 ACP and .38 Spl which made it easier, was to use the same headstamp cases. I had access to thousands of once fired .38 Spl Federal cases, and the same with once fired .45 ACP Army Match cases (free). This made it easier to set up my loading system for each caliber. I trimmed the .38's to the recommended minimum OAL case length, and discarded those which were short...the .45's I trimmed to optimum headspace length for my 1911, and discarded the shorts. I set my system up AFTER trimming/sorting the cases. Working with the same headstamped brass eliminates a lot of problems with set-up and things...

 

[Rustynuts]

Fired about 25 today! No problems, all cycled perfect, felt consistent, and were accurate. I did fire all one handed just to be sure! I think I might have even closed my eyes as advised on the first one! Nervous as hell on that first trigger pull. Took a second to get up the gumption!

Spent more time on the ground scrounging range brass and making sure I didn't loose my beloved new brass! Stopped after every round to hunt the brass I just shot and check it for any adverse pressure problems. All is well!

 

[jfh]

...No problems, all cycled perfect, felt consistent, and were accurate....

Wonderful!

Do you think you have the press sorted out?

Jim H.

 

[Rustynuts]

Not completely. I'm still getting jams on the expander die in station 2. Doesn't seem to center the cases and I have to manually move the case around to get it started into the die. May have to reset the die per the videos. I still don't like the fact I was getting variable OAL on the rounds. Nothing too drastic or out of spec, but I feel like they should be tighter. I was pretty much double pumping the press on every round at the very top to make sure there were no short cycles. This is safe on the LM as there's no way to double charge without lowering way down and by then the turret indexes.

 

[Shadow500]

You shouldn’t have to double pump, but double pumping should be OK unless the powder thrower resets. But I would visually check the powder level in every case anyway. Unless you look at the powder in every case you don’t know for sure if you have a double charge or a squib.

I am a little confused in where your jams are happening. You indicate that it is happening in the expander in station #2. I assume you mean the sizing die in station #2. The sizing die is always the one that will show a misaligned case before the other dies.

If you get any powder in the shellplate where the cases go, the cases will not be pushed all the way into the shellplate. This will do two things; first it will cause that case to be misaligned, which usually shows up in station #2. And second it will push all of your case retainers out which will make other cases hit or miss. This will also seem to show up in station #2.

Clean any powder out of your shellplate where it holds the cases and readjust your case retainers and try it again. Make sure the case retainers are snug and not flopping around.

As for the OAL floating around, first make sure everything is tight and that your sizing die is set for shelplate contact plus ¼ turn. This helps to remove any slop in the shellplate by cocking the shellplate up slightly the same every time at the seating die (station #4). If this doesn’t work it may also be variation in your bullets. You measure OAL from the tip of the bullet but the seater is shaped to push on the ogive. Making them the same length at the ogive is supposedly more accurate (I don’t bench rest shoot but I read that somewhere). If there is variation on the OAL on a bunch of rounds try removing the seater plug from the die and putting it on the tip of the bullets. Then measure from the base of the case to the other end of the seater plug. You may find that they will be all within a coupe thousands of an inch. If they are, the difference in OAL measured from the tip is from each bullet being a slightly different shape. I had this problem with sierra 9mm. (I should probably make a video on this.)

For my SWC bullets I made square seater plugs on a lathe and I can usually get my OAL's within four thousands. For the 9mm the OAL as measured from the tip varries around 0.010" total, but only varries 0.004" total as measured from the ogive. Lee and other die manufactures can make special seater plugs for a small fee if you need one. I think Lee charges $12 to make a custom plug made for your bullet, but dont quote me on that.

The OAL spread tht you were getting is way out of line, I bet something is loose.

I also tighten the decapping pin as tight as I can get it and it dont push out unless I have something in the case blocking it.

Glad you enjoyed shooting your first ever handloads!

Hope this helps.

Chris