First Reloads Today: couple questions

[cat_IT_guy]

So I shot my first reloads today. .38spl, 4.5gr of Unique pushing a 125gr Berry's bullet. I was shooting them in my 6" 686. Despite feeling that I did pretty good QC, I was a bit apprehensive at first.

I chose this load because it was what I could do with he components that were locally available. From now on I'll be comparison shopping online - specifically looking to cast lead bullets for more load data and lower cost.

All went pretty well, and I only had to knock 1 bullet (out of 49.... 49 because I started with 50 and seated one bullet so deep that I couldnt salvage it, or the case) out of the barrel, which leads me to my first question. I THINK I saw some powder behind the bullet that was lodged in the barrel. I am using a Lee Perfect Powder measure (PPM), which allows for a bit of variability with powders like Unique. I know 4.5gr is a pretty light load for this bullet/caliber anyway. Is it possible that a light load, a bit under 4.5gr would be the difference between sending it downrange and sticking in the barrel? Or, did I just miss the case and the primer alone got it that far (abt 1" into the barrel)?

Second, I think I could detect an audible (and sometimes recoil) difference from shot to shot. Am I imagining that, or is the little variability from the Lee PPM and Unique such that one could tell the difference? Would .1-.2gr plus or minus be detectable to an average joe like myself?

Good news is, no pressure issues. Im thinking my next batch I'll bump up to 5gr of Unique behind the Berry's and assuming no issues stick with that load - if I want more power I'll shoot .357mag.

Speaking of .357... been looking for some loads with Unique and the 125gr Berry's. None of the manuals has a published load for this combo, but found online some references to using about 5.5gr and working up to about 7gr of Unique. I know the Berry's are not rated for use past 1200fps, which is fine I dont need any crazy hot loads. Anyone foresee an issue with this?

Thanks in advance for any insight. Im new to this, but already about hooked.

 

[ColtPythonElite]

I believe you missed charging a case.

I have been loading a Speer 125 TMJ with 8.0 gr of Unique in .357. I would use same load for Berry's.

To save money over plated bullets, check out Missouri bullet company coated bullets.

 

[flyguy958]

Most don't want to push plated bullets to 357 velocities.

 

[ColtPythonElite]

I need to look at my notes, but I believe 8 gr of Unique was getting me between 1100 and 1200 fps. If I recall correctly, I was .6 grain under the starting .357 load according to my Speer #14.

 

[joem1945]

+1 on Missouri Bullets. I shoot lots of cast from them.

 

[cat_IT_guy]

I will certainly keep any .357 loads with Berry's very mild. And thanks for the recommendation on Missouri Bullets - they are already on my radar. I bought the Berry's locally so I'd have something to play with, before dropping a couple hundred bucks on bullets from Missouri Bullet Co.

 

[Dudedog]

I like Missouri Bullets. Used a bunch of them. They offer a 5% discount to THR members.
When you look at their site they have both ".39" and ".357" bullets.
The .38s are usually BHN 12 (softer better for lower velocities) and the .357 BHN 18 better for higher vels.
I have used the harder ones at around 1000fps in light-medium .357 with no leading.


I have used both the coated and uncoated bullets with success.
The coated ones cost a bit more but are worth it in IMO.

I haven't used any RMR bullets in .357 but I like the RMR plated ones in 9mm and .45. They also have good deals on pulled bullets sometimes.
They also offer THR members a 5% discount.

Both are good companies to do business with.


Sounds like the one that got stuck in the barrel did not have any powder or just very little. I like Unique but it meters poorly for me. Universal Clays, HP38/Win231 (same powder different name) Bullyeye and BE86 all meter much better. (but you use what you can find) I don't know your loading sequence but if you are charging with a PPM I would charge the cases, then put them loading block so I could verify the powder level by eye. You can easily double or even triple charge a .357 with some powders. (bad things happen then)


I remember when I shot my first reload, just a bit nervous.

If you are intersted in trying Missouri Bullets I have some 158gr SWC,
If you want to PM me your address I can send you some to try before you order.
I have also used the 140 Zingers and liked them.

As for the Berry's Plated usually loads between lead and jacketed.

Have fun, be safe.

(PS I am an IT guy also...Network Admin)

 

[chris in va]

When you have all your cases in the loading block, take a flashlight and check EVERY SINGLE CASE for powder. Also visually confirm the case is charged when you press the bullet. I find a decent headlamp works great and doesn't get in the way.

 

[Blue68f100]

You can fell the variations in load with Unique. Mainly because you can get a ±0.2 gr swing consistently if not larger. In some cases this will cover the load range low to max. It meters very poorly in all my equipment and no longer will buy it.

 

[Zendude]

For a bullet to stick in the barrel, it would have less than 1 grain of powder. I had several do that on the first couple of batches that I reloaded. It takes a while to get the feel of your reloading equipment to know when something isn't right.
I get variations that I can feel on the range, especially if I use a powder that has a flake shape instead of a more spherical shape.

 

[Haxby]

Speer and Alliant show a 5.7 gr Unique starting load for the 125 gr gold dot in 38, and Speer says 'do not reduce.' That's a standard pressure load, safe for any 38 special that works. It's a very light load for an L frame 357.

 

[BCRider]

Berry says right on their website to use cast lead bullet recipes.

My Lyman manual says that the starting load for Unique is 4.0gns. So you are over the minimum.

I also suspect that the one round that only went an inch into the bore was primer only. If you're loading with a single stage you want to use a flashlight to check for powder a little more carefully.

Your finding that you had a lot of felt recoil variation suggests that your powder measure is not doing well with the small amounts of charge. I've got one of those Lee PPM's but I only use it for rifle charging. The system it uses for holding and slicing off the powder is just too crude to use for the small 4 to 5gn "dustings" used for handgun ammo. As a result I would not be surprised to see a .5 or larger variation between charges. And that's just too much variation when you're working with just a 4.5gn charge.

For pistol I either rely on the bar style measure on my Dillon 550b, a Lee die mounted Auto Disc measure or I go with little scoops that I made up from cartridge casings with copper wire handles soldered onto them. The bar style Dillon and Lee Auto Disc style measures do a lot better with the small charges used for handgun ammo loading. And if you're using a single stage press and Lee dies then the Auto Disc measure can be used to aid in skipping a step by charging the case at the same time you flare the mouth.

Otherwise I'd suggest a set of Lee dipper scoops or make your own dippers from small spent casings like I did. Things like .25 and .32 acp cases can be cut down to fine tune the powder charges.

 

[rcmodel]

No way 4.5 Unique stuck a bullet in the barrel.

You missed charging a case somehow.
Lucky you didn't over-charge the next one if it was powder bridging in the powder measure tube.

When you have all your cases in the loading block, take a flashlight and check EVERY SINGLE CASE for powder.

This will stop all that foolishness!!

Make it a habit to see & compare the powder levels in every case before you put bullets in them!!

rc

 

[Jlr2267]

You very likely short-stroked the ppm. The *only* squibs I have ever had were from using Unique in a ppm. Happened twice...the 2nd time I had a subsequent overcharge (the powder had apparently bridged)...no damage but made me soil my britches

Older & wiser now and won't use that combo without visually inspecting every charge as mentioned by RC.

 

[GLOOB]

For a bullet to stick in the barrel, it would have less than 1 grain of powder.

Not out of a revolver. I have stuck a 148 gr plated wadcutter with a 3.8 grains of HP38. I know it wasn't a squib, because I used a dipper. And because I shot a bunch of them. They were super quiet, and I could sometimes see the bullet travelling downrange. So I was ready and waiting for the squib, which almost made it to the muzzle of my 6" revo.

 

[cat_IT_guy]

Thanks all, lots of good info. I'll have to triple check powder charges next time. Also in reading up on Berry's I now know Im okay to use published lead loads.

I will say some of you are making me nervous with the PPM. Can one of you explain exactly what is meant by bridging - and hopefully how to avoid it?

 

[mjsdwash]

I have had this problem with squbs with unique and 38spl. Look for yellow cornmeal looking residue, its the unburned powder. Unique does not like low pressure, and in my experience the manual got the info wrong. The only thing i can say is unique does not work well in low pressure, especially large volume cases. Having really inconsistent results if 45 acp as well. if you load 9mm, its an excellent powder. hope this helps. BTW in a marlin 1894c, max loads of unique caused about 1 in 10 bullets to stick the barrel. no other powder does this. This is with measured loads, and not a measure issue.

 

[savanahsdad]

Thanks all, lots of good info. Can one of you explain exactly what is meant by bridging - and hopefully how to avoid it?

Bridging is where the powder hangs up in the drop tube , where the powder "Bridges" or "Stacks" and dose not all fall out , you can get a lite charge followed by a heavy charge ,

 

[Toprudder]

38spl is a large volume case that most powders will not come close to filling up. I've tried several powders in 38spl (not Unique, though) and most powders will be position sensitive to some extent, and a few powders are VERY position sensitive.

Whenever I am working up 38spl loads and testing them, I will do the "powder-forward" test. I've seen close to 300fpm difference between powder-forward and powder-rear shots with one powder. It seems to be worse with 125gn bullets, as these do not seat deep into the case and leaves more volume. The 148gn WC bullets are much better as they leave less empty volume.

I mention this since the powder-forward effect could possibly cause a stuck bullet if using very low charges, although I don't think that was the case with the OP.

 

[Zendude]

Not out of a revolver. I have stuck a 148 gr plated wadcutter with a 3.8 grains of HP38. I know it wasn't a squib, because I used a dipper. And because I shot a bunch of them. They were super quiet, and I could sometimes see the bullet travelling downrange. So I was ready and waiting for the squib, which almost made it to the muzzle of my 6" revo.

Wow that sounds odd. Was there something wrong with the powder? How many grains were supposed to be in the cartridge?

 

[Zendude]

Berry says right on their website to use cast lead bullet recipes.

I've always wondered about this because Ranier says to use jacketed bullet recipes. Both Ranier and Berrys are copper plated bullets. The only difference I know of is that Berrys has exposed lead on the bottom of the bullet and the Raniers are completely encapsulated.
Anyone know why the recommended recipes for Ranier and Berrys would be different?

 

[rcmodel]

Here is what Berry actually says on the website FAQ.

but you can use any published load data for a jacketed or lead bullet as long as it is the same weight bullet.

Not too long ago, it said to use mid-range jacketed bullet data.

BTW: Berry plated bullets Do Not have lead exposed on the base of the bullet.

Here is what Rainier actually says on their website.

A. Loads for copper jacketed bullets can be used for Rainier copper plated bullets. We recommend a starting powder charge directly between the listed minimum and maximum load.

rc

 

[Zendude]

That makes more sense now.
The pic on the Berrys website makes it look like the bottom is exposed lead but I guess it is some other material. I have not actually seen them though.

 

[BSA1]

cat_IT_guy,

What kind of reloading press are you using?

 

[cat_IT_guy]

What kind of reloading press are you using?

Its a basic, bench mounted Lee Single Stage.... Challenger Anniv. Kit IIRC.