First round building 9MM training load

Buzznrose

Buzznrose

Member
Joined
Feb 15, 2012
Messages
3,585
Location
New Braunfels, TX
Long post…

Full disclosure up front: I am not a perfectionist nor do I want to become one in most things.

1. I carry factory ammo. Mostly the stuff the LEO’s and professionals carry, i.e. HST, Gold Dot, and Critical Duty. My carry ammo is either 124 or 147 grain. I rarely shoot it because $$$$

2. My range/training ammo is mostly 115 and 124 FMJ and it varies greatly. I bought cheap and by the case. Blazer, Magtec, Geco, Remington, MEN, S&B…I have all kinds…mostly 115 but some
124/147 too. I tend to save the heavier stuff.

3. Since I began reloading, I’ve developed some really sweet soft loads using plated and coated 124 gr bullets and N320. These are very accurate and fun to shoot, even in subcompact pistols.

But am I creating a training scar using soft ammo? I think I am.

Last weekend, I shot an IDPA match with an old fav I’d been ignoring for years…my G23 in .40 S&W. I hit okay but man was I slow! Shooting 180 gr commercial, I took a long time getting back on target. I believe I’ve become a whimpy shooter…I don’t want that!

So I’ve been wanting to build a stout load that’s close to the feel of my carry 9MM ammo. I decided to see how RMR 124 NUKE’s perform over a close to max load of 3N37. All I can say is it’s a huge step forward!



I ran them yesterday at the range. Shooting at 12 yards, I made a single hole about tennis ball size with 25 rounds. Very happy. Accurate and pretty stout. I don’t know what they chrono at. Some day I may try to figure them out…but for now, they pretty much exactly what I want. And as an added bonus, I’m going to have a good shooting JHP stocked up in case I ever really need them. But for now, they will be a great addition to my shooting drills.

Not sure if this post is relevant to anyone else, but just thought I’d share. image.jpg
 
Buzznrose said:
Long post…

Full disclosure up front: I am not a perfectionist nor do I want to become one in most things.

1. I carry factory ammo. Mostly the stuff the LEO’s and professionals carry, i.e. HST, Gold Dot, and Critical Duty. My carry ammo is either 124 or 147 grain. I rarely shoot it because $$$$

2. My range/training ammo is mostly 115 and 124 FMJ and it varies greatly. I bought cheap and by the case. Blazer, Magtec, Geco, Remington, MEN, S&B…I have all kinds…mostly 115 but some
124/147 too. I tend to save the heavier stuff.

3. Since I began reloading, I’ve developed some really sweet soft loads using plated and coated 124 gr bullets and N320. These are very accurate and fun to shoot, even in subcompact pistols.

But am I creating a training scar using soft ammo? I think I am.

Last weekend, I shot an IDPA match with an old fav I’d been ignoring for years…my G23 in .40 S&W. I hit okay but man was I slow! Shooting 180 gr commercial, I took a long time getting back on target. I believe I’ve become a whimpy shooter…I don’t want that!

So I’ve been wanting to build a stout load that’s close to the feel of my carry 9MM ammo. I decided to see how RMR 124 NUKE’s perform over a close to max load of 3N37. All I can say is it’s a huge step forward!



I ran them yesterday at the range. Shooting at 12 yards, I made a single hole about tennis ball size with 25 rounds. Very happy. Accurate and pretty stout. I don’t know what they chrono at. Some day I may try to figure them out…but for now, they pretty much exactly what I want. And as an added bonus, I’m going to have a good shooting JHP stocked up in case I ever really need them. But for now, they will be a great addition to my shooting drills.

Not sure if this post is relevant to anyone else, but just thought I’d share. View attachment 1183457
Click to expand...
Perfectionist or not, they’re fine looking cartridges and results are nothing to sneeze at.
 
Buzznrose said:
Long post…

Full disclosure up front: I am not a perfectionist nor do I want to become one in most things.

1. I carry factory ammo. Mostly the stuff the LEO’s and professionals carry, i.e. HST, Gold Dot, and Critical Duty. My carry ammo is either 124 or 147 grain. I rarely shoot it because $$$$

2. My range/training ammo is mostly 115 and 124 FMJ and it varies greatly. I bought cheap and by the case. Blazer, Magtec, Geco, Remington, MEN, S&B…I have all kinds…mostly 115 but some
124/147 too. I tend to save the heavier stuff.

3. Since I began reloading, I’ve developed some really sweet soft loads using plated and coated 124 gr bullets and N320. These are very accurate and fun to shoot, even in subcompact pistols.

But am I creating a training scar using soft ammo? I think I am.

Last weekend, I shot an IDPA match with an old fav I’d been ignoring for years…my G23 in .40 S&W. I hit okay but man was I slow! Shooting 180 gr commercial, I took a long time getting back on target. I believe I’ve become a whimpy shooter…I don’t want that!

So I’ve been wanting to build a stout load that’s close to the feel of my carry 9MM ammo. I decided to see how RMR 124 NUKE’s perform over a close to max load of 3N37. All I can say is it’s a huge step forward!



I ran them yesterday at the range. Shooting at 12 yards, I made a single hole about tennis ball size with 25 rounds. Very happy. Accurate and pretty stout. I don’t know what they chrono at. Some day I may try to figure them out…but for now, they pretty much exactly what I want. And as an added bonus, I’m going to have a good shooting JHP stocked up in case I ever really need them. But for now, they will be a great addition to my shooting drills.

Not sure if this post is relevant to anyone else, but just thought I’d share. View attachment 1183457
Click to expand...
Ah, yes. The old “Factory Duplication” routine. I’m a fan. Some folks aren’t. I also like to make sure my factory dup loads blow factory ammunition away in the areas I care about.
I think you’re on the right track, going down the rabbit hole. 👍🤣
 
IDPA "Major" power factor is more or less what you're referring to I reckon. It is a wise idea to train with what you're going to use. But to be honest, the thumpy 9s get a little stingy on my hands after so many rounds.

I use Xtreme plated 124gr target hollow points for this. Blue Dot, Longshot, Power Pistol or BE-86 are ones I've used and all with similarly great success. They all produce the same velocity and recoil as my 124gr +p Remington Golden Saber Bonded that I carry.
And provide the same amount of hand sting through the Glocks.

I've never tried but would definitely consider W244 or AA#7 for this purpose as well.
 
Last edited:
Palladan44 said:
IDPA "Major" power factor is more or less what you're referring to I reckon. It is a wise idea to train with what you're going to use. But to be honest, the thumpy 9s get a little stingy on my hands after so many rounds.

I use Xtreme plated 124gr target hollow points for this. Blue Dot, Longshot, Power Pistol or BE-86 are ones I've used and all with similarly great success. They all produce the same velocity and recoil as my 124gr +p Remington Golden Saber Bonded that I carry.
And provide the same amount of hand sting through the Glocks.

I've never tried but would definitely consider W244 or AA#7 for this purpose as well.
Click to expand...
Thanks for the info, but I’m good for now.

RMR 124 Nukes cost $64/500 with free shipping. I could save more (under $60) using the discount codes.

XTreme 124 plated HP cost $54/500 with free shipping (Cabelas).

The RMR could easily be used as a SD bullet. And I really like the company including their customer support when I’ve called them with questions and how fast they ship.

And good or bad, I’ve become a VV fanboy.
 
This is where a chrono really comes in handy. Felt recoil is very subjective in determining how close rounds are performing.
USPSA specifies minor power factor, 125 for minimum 9mm loads where IDPA doesn’t call in minor but does specify it for SSP and ESP.
I’ve found VV powders are very nice and soft. Your rounds look great - what COL do you load them to?
 
lordpaxman said:
This is where a chrono really comes in handy. Felt recoil is very subjective in determining how close rounds are performing.
USPSA specifies minor power factor, 125 for minimum 9mm loads where IDPA doesn’t call in minor but does specify it for SSP and ESP.
I’ve found VV powders are very nice and soft. Your rounds look great - what COL do you load them to?
Click to expand...
COL is 1.09

Yes, I do want to get a chrono at some point...not there yet.

Maybe I'm too casual about this stuff, but I don't sweat what I consider minutia...and I consider exactly duplicating my carry loads pretty much that. My handguns are all sighted in using carry ammo, and they all hit 6" circles out to 25 yards consistently with pretty much every flavor of training or duty ammo I shoot. All I'm looking for is basically two outcomes...1) some less expensive training ammo that more closely simulates the felt recoil for carry loads and 2) A round I could actually carry should I choose to. Number 1 is by far my main priority at this point.
 
Last edited:
I’m using these bullets with be-86. I am sort of in the same camp - why am I reloading “whimpy” target rounds. I’d rather reload hollow points that more replicate full power loads.
 
blackd24 said:
I’m using these bullets with be-86. I am sort of in the same camp - why am I reloading “whimpy” target rounds. I’d rather reload hollow points that more replicate full power loads.
Click to expand...
Don’t get me wrong…I still reload whimpy target rounds. I love shooting the RMR 124 TC FMJ loaded over 3.9 N320. Just a nice round.

I simply came to the conclusion that I needed to add some stress to my range sessions.
 
Buzznrose said:
And good or bad, I’ve become a VV fanboy.
Click to expand...

I wondered about that. I've been eyeballing VV powders setting on the shelf... I may wind up taking the plunge some day.

lordpaxman said:
This is where a chrono really comes in handy. Felt recoil is very subjective in determining how close rounds are performing.
Click to expand...

Quite true. Last week I took the .41's to the range. My 'mid-range' load of Unique kicked harder (by feel...) than the 'Magnum' loads of IMR4227. It took me many years to fully understand that, and why slower powders usually work better for the upper end loads vs a mid-range powder, like Unique.


As far as the OP, I load the majority of my .45ACP and 9mm handloads to near factory velocity. It's not like they are target pistols, anyway.
 
"Train as you will fight."

With absolutely no intent to insult or infuriate you, sir.... But what initially strikes me about your thread is that you'd like to finish well in your IDPA match, but you'd also like to be ready to defend yourself. These are 2 wholly different things. You are carrying a 9mm, but you talk of taking a 40 to IDPA. In my humble opinion, those differences cannot be resolved. And therein lies the real issue.

What I would suggest is...
• Work up your IDPA ammo to mimic your SD ammo as closely as possible. That means 1) same caliber & weight bullet, 2) traveling at the same speed. For this I would suggest using 9mm RMR bullets and proabably some BE-86 powder.
• If you want a "competition advantage" in IDPA, then find the "big brother" to your current carry pistol that has the same control layout, but a slightly longer barrel. And possibly add Federal primers to your Match ammo.

► Then, if you want to shoot your 40, hang around after the match and have fun shooting the 40 (or anything else in the gun safe). Nothing wrong with that.

But whatever you do, IMHO somehow you've got to separate the "training time" from the "fun time".
 
Charlie98 said:
I wondered about that. I've been eyeballing VV powders setting on the shelf... I may wind up taking the plunge some day.



Quite true. Last week I took the .41's to the range. My 'mid-range' load of Unique kicked harder (by feel...) than the 'Magnum' loads of IMR4227. It took me many years to fully understand that, and why slower powders usually work better for the upper end loads vs a mid-range powder, like Unique.


As far as the OP, I load the majority of my .45ACP and 9mm handloads to near factory velocity. It's not like they are target pistols, anyway.
Click to expand...
Yes, 8gr of Unique under a Speer 160gr in a .357 will definitely get your attention - and knock a 200lb sow off her hooves! But the same velocity loads in IMR 4227 or Accurate 4100 will do the same thing without beating you up quite as badly. So why load Unique at the top end instead of a slower powder at just below max?
Barrel length and economy.
The slower powders need more barrel for efficiency. Without enough barrel for all the gases to burn off those slower powders will create quite the light show. And, while 8gr of Unique is good for 1100fps with the Speer SJSP, it takes 15gr of IMR 4227 - or H110 - to get the same velocity.
Twice the powder, twice the fireball, same velocity and same energy on the other end.
Which one I choose depends a lot on the firearm (4, 6-1/2, or 10” barrel) and the conditions (mid-day, mid-night, dusk or dawn).

I’m not using a flash-bang load like W296/H110 at dawn or dusk. That’s a good way to lose game in the kudzu. 😞

But then, this is why we handload.
 
GeoDudeFlorida said:
So why load Unique at the top end instead of a slower powder at just below max?
Barrel length and economy.
Click to expand...

Quite true... but there comes a point of diminishing returns. Further, I always preach 'the right tool for the job at hand...' so the right thing to do, in lieu of beating your pistol (and your hand...) to death with max pressure Unique loads, would be to find an intermediate powder between Unique and, say, W296... namely, AA#7, 2400, IMR4227, and even something like that nasty BlueDot. I speak from experience... ;)
 
I've been doing this for years. All my 9mm practice rounds feel like an HST 124 grain and hit at the same POA/POI. I have sub-compact pistols so use fast AA2 which is pretty much made for subs. Maybe they are just a tad stiffer than factory, but it sure trains you to get back on target well and get your grip in order.

I agree w/ you and Walk that N320 is a good power as well.

I think this is the best way for you to go with your training. I've not been inclined to load softer practice.
 
rfwobbly said:
"Train as you will fight."

With absolutely no intent to insult or infuriate you, sir.... But what initially strikes me about your thread is that you'd like to finish well in your IDPA match, but you'd also like to be ready to defend yourself. These are 2 wholly different things. You are carrying a 9mm, but you talk of taking a 40 to IDPA. In my humble opinion, those differences cannot be resolved. And therein lies the real issue.

What I would suggest is...
• Work up your IDPA ammo to mimic your SD ammo as closely as possible. That means 1) same caliber & weight bullet, 2) traveling at the same speed. For this I would suggest using 9mm RMR bullets and proabably some BE-86 powder.
• If you want a "competition advantage" in IDPA, then find the "big brother" to your current carry pistol that has the same control layout, but a slightly longer barrel. And possibly add Federal primers to your Match ammo.

► Then, if you want to shoot your 40, hang around after the match and have fun shooting the 40 (or anything else in the gun safe). Nothing wrong with that.

But whatever you do, IMHO somehow you've got to separate the "training time" from the "fun time".
Click to expand...
All shooting is fun time for me…

I don’t particularly sweat where I finish in local IDPA matches, I care that I make bad hits (or miss).

I run my carry gear (close to body OWB kydex holster and single mag pouch. All other mags are in a pocket somewhere. Unless the stage says different, I pretty much only take shots to the head of the targets just to emphasize shooting at smaller targets. So my scores aren’t the issue other than when I miss or get dinged for hitting outside the zero zone.

Some matches I shoot my G43X, some a G48, and some a G26 or G19. I’ve also shot matches with my G21 and pre-2016 I used to shoot my G23 a lot. The recent match I shot with the G23 simply struck me that I’m out of practice shooting spicy rounds, need to spend more time shooting hotter rounds and not get used to shooting soft rounds.

No different than training with light weights. Every so often, you have to go heavy to stress the body a bit more for growth.

I appreciate your thoughts…but I’m good with my current plan.
 
Last edited:
Buzznrose said:
All shooting is fun time for me…

I don’t particularly sweat where I finish in local IDPA matches. I run my daily carry gear, and I pretty much only take shots to the head of the target just to emphasize shooting at smaller targets. So my scores aren’t the issue.

Some matches I shoot my G43X, some a G48, and some a G19. I’ve also shot matches with my G21. The match I shot with the G23 simply struck me that I’m out of practice shooting spicy rounds, need to spend more time shooting hotter rounds and not get used to shooting soft rounds.

No different than training with light weights. Every so often, you have to go heavy to stress the body a bit more for growth.
Click to expand...
I have a lot of fixed sight handguns. I load to the sights, which is typically some military or police duty carry load. The old .45ACP issue 230gr FMJ load, and the 158gr LRN .38Spl as examples. I wouldn’t consider any issue loading a “powderpuff”. And there’s reams of documentation on such things.
 
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