First time Elk hunter. How does if differ from Deer?

[Arizona_Mike]

I'm going to be putting in for Elk for the first time ever. Hunted deer in Michigan farm country, central Florida forests and Arizona high desert. The area I would like to hunt in near the AZ/NM border near Zuni (I have 40 acres up there and most of the neighbors are not posted--open unless posted in AZ). A mix of plains and mature pinion forest.

Using deer hunting (mostly sit and wait) as a reference, how different is elk hunting. I've heard they are more social (more talkative) and tend to move around and prefer certain areas at different times of year. A friend of mine recommends a lot more walking than deer hunting.

Mike

 

[OYE]

Guess it will depend on:

1) When your hunt is and how much time you have
2) What the terrain is like
3) What the elk population is
4) How many tags are drawn and whether bull or cow tag
5) What the road access situation is
6) What the elk are eating that time of year and when they are likely to be feeding (biggie)
7) Whether water is plentiful or scarce and where (biggie)
8) The method you are using (foot, vehicle, horse)
9) What the success rate is
10) Whether private and or public land

Most of this can be learned mainly from personal observation, neighbors willing to talk, Fish and Game biologists, or BLM and or Forest Service biologists and personel, maps, and observation of tactics used by unsuccessful hunters (example: if the success rate is 10%, nine of ten hunters will be using the wrong tactics and will be giving poor advice).

The biggest difference from deer to elk is the size. You may have to deal with anything from 400 to 1000 lbs. and maybe a little more. Elk are much more vocal than deer. Tactics often differ in the same area for different times of year.
Success will often depend on the amount of time you have to observe and study the area that you will hunt. Careful looking always beats walking. The success of your hunt is often determined before you leave home. OYE

 

[Vern Humphrey]

Elk differ from deer basically in two ways -- they cover more territory when they move, and they tend to live in rougher terrain.

Typically during hunting season the elk will browse at lower altitudes then head uphill into the black timber at first flash (the earliest time you can detect sunrise.)

Success depends on finding their routes. I've found two methods to be successful -- first, climb the mountain in the dark and start down, and meet them on their way up. Move slowly and carefully and stop and listen frequently.

Second, find a funnel -- a place they have to go through -- and take a stand there well before dawn. You can increase the odds in your favor by having a buddy follow their trail, beginning at about dawn and pushing them toward you.

 

[onegunred]

There are NO Elk in New Mexico ! They have all been killed by the TV program hosts and hauled out of state. Back when I hunted the Pecos and Pot Creek up by Taos I found Elk and deer in the same habitat. I am a 50 yd or less kind guy and I would still hunt the edges of timber near open meadows. SW N.M. is a tad different more pine and a bit more open. Just follow the two previous posts.

 

[X-Rap]

I'm trying to think of the terrain around Zuni. Seems like rolling hills PJ's and maybe some Ponderosa and Spruce. Elevations below 7500.
That's good easy hunting country but 40 acres will get small quick and your neighbors might have the same idea as you. Throw a wider net and scout out public land as well. Buy a good pack frame, study the gutless method of quartering (you tube) get at least 5 good game bags per animal and carry them in your pack along with some para cord.
Know where your gun shoots from 50 - 500 yards and what positions you can do it in.
Hunting style will vary and is best decided after some scouting and studying of terrain and local habits that you may be able to capitalize on.

 

[tarosean]

When it comes time to pack it out you will find out quickly....

Using deer hunting (mostly sit and wait)

Thats your preference.

 

[onegunred]

A 2nd think I might mention, if you were to hunt on "public land" don't wander onto Zuni Pueblo Land, that would not be good.

 

[Tony k]

Not an expert by any means, but I have about a 75% success rate.

As others have mentioned they are more vocal. They are also just generally louder when they move through timber and brush. I'd also add that they don't seem to spook as easily by sound as deer, which you can you to your advantage. If they are making noise by breaking branches,etc, they don't seem to notice you doing it as well so long as they don't see you.

Except in extreme terrain, I've noticed that they tend to move straight up and down slopes and ridgelines, where deer tend to follow routes that angle across slopes.

If they sense a threat in open terrain, they often bunch up real tight before they take off. Once they bunch up, you won't have a clean shot.

The logistics of packing out an elk is a much greater consideration than packing out a deer. It's not uncommon for it to be a multi-day affair even in moderate terrain if there are no roads nearby. Make sure you are in good physical condition.

 

[steveno]

be in shape. it is one thing to haul out a deer at the altitude of Michigan and a whole lot different hauling out an animal the size of an elk at 8,000 feet

 

[oneounceload]

^^^

In conjunction with that, if you live down on the flats, then allow an extra day or so for your body to acclimate to higher elevations. Altitude sickness can be easily prevented, but if it happens and you do not treat it properly, it can be fatal.

 

[Arizona_Mike]

Just to clarify, the area is just on the AZ side of the border (4-8 miles) and about half way between the Zuni river (to the South) and the road to Zuni (to the North). Dominant vegetation is Pinion Pine. It is a mix of private and AZ state land. The altitude is 6400 ft. When I was last there in the early fall you had to watch your step to avoid elk, deer, and antelope stool.

I hike at about 5k ft regularly. Hiked about 8 mi at 6400 ft last time I was there.

Mike

 

[onegunred]

Okay, that matters some. So you will not be hunting in N.M., that will save you a bunch of money. That country over there is a bit too far west for my knowledge. My son was over near Bluewater Lake this past fall for a hunt, saw a few. Buddy all I can say is Elk are where you find them, Elk and deer do share the same habitat at times, I've seen them. Please, don't call it stool, it is called "sign" if you call it stool you will loose your right to hunt. The best way to locate them is go hiking and look for stock tanks and track. Good luck.

 

[X-Rap]

Water in that country is a key point to the hunt, animals of that size require much more than just dew off the grass, game cameras are all the rage now for good reason, you need to pin down the time they come to water and make your plans accordingly, also know that they will travel miles and thousands of feet in elevation in their daily bed, feed water cycles. If you can tune into that and their routes you will be money.

 

[Arizona_Mike]

Please, don't call it stool, it is called "sign" if you call it stool you will loose your right to hunt.

The word I was looking for was probably "scat". Stool was a quick substitute for a more colloquial S-word to stay within forum rules

Was Google-scouting and found this complex of game trails half a mile NE of the center of my lot. The image includes about 1/3 of the dense cluster. I need to find the water. How many miles away can it be?

Mike

 

[onegunred]

Hi Mike, I don't understand the question. Where I live in N.M. I tell people , oh I'm only 5 miles from water....... straight down ! If you can spend some time looking at Google photos of a 5 mile square area or larger then you may find tanks or ponds or weeps . Getting a USGS map that has your area in it will help. See if anyone runs cattle near there and visit with them. I don't see any water there but that is a small area. How are you at taking a day or two and doing an over night venture with a dry camp? The USGS maps will have contours and will (maybe) show streams. As you know being a desert rat water comes and goes. Pound the "pavement" so to speak and by summer you should have more of this figured. Keep me posted, this is fun. Good luck, Jerry

 

[OYE]

Something to think about is what are your odds of being drawn in the areas you are thinking about. And what those success rates are for each unit.

Those are useful pictures. They tell me one thing though. The timber is just enough to give the elk the advantage there. Personally I would not hunt in a patch of timber like that unless I knew for sure elk were there. And I see no way of knowing for sure if they are there. You can literally waste days hunting
rolling timber like that. Elk have pretty good noses. I look for areas that the "odds are ever in my favor".

You mentioned seeing "number two" on your hikes, but did you see any elk ?
If not ask yourself "why not". If it's primarily mixed state and private land where you are going to be hunting, the state agencies may clue you in to the water situation there, springs, wells, being hauled in for cattle etc... and the locations. The F & G dept (or whatever they call them there) may be worth talking to as well for distribution and tactics. Anything to try to find areas that have a good elk population, what they are eating that time of year, and to narrow down terrain that will give you more of an advantage. OYE

 

[Arizona_Mike]

Looked like deer, elk, and antelope. The elk were somewhat flattened pellets, sometimes loosely connected, and larger than a nickle. It was around July or August last year. I found a ruined windmill and what looks like a maintained tank. In my experience you usually see an old ruined windmill next to a solar panel powered well. There is probably a string of stock tanks going down slope. I plan to mark things from the air and then check them out when I go there.

I don't like to hunt in timber that thick, but that is right on the edge of an area that was chained in the '40s and has shorter 12-18' trees with about 1/4 of the density.

Mike

 

[dpowers311]

They move very fast and cover a lot of ground fast when they want. They are also a lot bigger than deer.

 

[TheLastNerve]

First time Elk hunter. How does if differ from Deer?

Having previously lived in Flag/Williams/Ash Fork area, and have hunted successfully that area for many years... I would recommend you get to the Gym now. Elk hunts are hard and harvesting in that area ... even harder, so get and maintain strength.
Get a good pack frame.
Go with someone who knows the area well, Elk like to move.

 

[Tony k]

Welcome to the High Road, TheLastNerve.

Arizona Mike- I've never hunted in PJ country like that aerial photo shows, but I've worked in similar country conducting transect surveys. I struggled with the short site distances and lack of landmarks. It looks like challenging country to me.

Can you invest some time scouting the area between now and the season? Game cams are handy, but it's good to get a sense of the terrain too.

As everyone else has said, find the water, especially the water that will be there during the hunt. Also look for wildlife guzzlers on the state lands. They come in a variety of designs, but all they do is collect water and keep it from evaporating for the benefit of wildlife. DOn't know if they use them in AZ, but I've seen them across the west on state and federal land.

 

[gamestalker]

There are two key points to consider though, #1 is water, #2 is food source, or browse. Both have equal significance. Locate water, then establish that they are using that source, and you'll have a starting point. Then establish where they are going to browse throughout the day. During early and mid fall, providing that the snow hasn't covered their browse, they will usually be within 4 or 5 miles of water, but have been known to travel much longer distances, but they spend most of their time where they browse.

The best tool to narrow things down, and once you've found fairly fresh sign, is to use tripods and glass to locate them in the sparse juniper and pinion forest. The part about this that's encouraging, is that elk are so big, that spotting them from 3 or 4 miles away isn't all that difficult with good glass and a decent tripod to work from. I'll glass a particular area for 2 hours + before I move onto another spot. Simply because elk are almost constantly on the move, they do bed when it gets warm, but they don't waste as much time bedding as deer do, they are always seeking food and water. Going about any other way will quickly wear you down, and likely end with an unsuccessful elk hunt.

If it snows during or prior to your hunt, they are going to quickly migrate toward terrain that doesn't have snow covering their food. Then they'll follow the snow line back to their resident territory. This is often referred to as wintering in and out.

Best of luck!

GS

 

[onegunred]

I have been looking at the photo Mike has and it looks like interesting country. I hunt with a handgun and spent way too many times crawling over wind falls in the Pecos Wilderness and other places in N.M. Now there may not be anything within 15 miles of that place but I am 68 and just being able to move from one stand of trees to another without killing myself sounds great. A guy could hunker down under a bush or lean against a tree and just be unnoticed.

 

[tarosean]

Was Google-scouting and found this complex of game trails half a mile NE of the center of my lot.

No experience with your particular area and its topography.

I'm used to snow typically moving the herds. Its what will drive them out of their high altitude preferred ranges. If their is not sufficient snow they will stay high.

 

[gamestalker]

I have hunted them in this type terrain, pinion and juniper, off the Mogollon Rim country many times, but it can entail long hours of watching areas that display good sign, in order to catch them coming and going.

GS

 

[Arizona_Mike]

Thanks for all the responses. After doing a lot of research I found out very few Elk are taken in the area. The signs I saw must correspond to non-season activity.

After looking at my work/vacation schedule, I decided to just buy and Elk point and Antelope point this year and will put in for Fall deer on the new area.

Mike