First time to pull my side arm today

[Varob]

This sounds like a text book reason why you need to carry a gun.

 

[Sniderman]

Forget "Brandishing", You confronted an immediate threat of force with greater force.
Threat retreated, End of story.
Show your piece to someone in an argument over a parking space, that's brandishing.
Show your piece to someone coming at you with a tire iron, that's self defence.
Threat eliminated/de-escalated, story over. I wouldn't think of getting LE involved, they don't have the BG but they do have you, nothing good down that road.
You should feel good about your actions, you might have smartened up this slow leak, he may think a little more before he comes at another citizen without provocation.
I think you may have actually spared someone else a lot of grief sometime in the future.
Also, no one here can make the legal call on the situation, that's what the judge does when/if it hits the court.

 

[Doc1911]

Sounds to me you did the right thing:

(1) three guys
(2) one waving a deadly weapon and screaming AT YOU, etc.
(3) he was coming AT YOU - eye to eye contact
(4) imminent harm was possible - your window was already down, you had to slow down, narrow gap, etc.
(5) though not required in some states and your vehicle offered you SOME protection, it appears as if you looked for other avenues of immediate escape and found none (you mentioned the stop sign and your close proximity, narrow gap, etc. so there was no way to safely accelerate w/o your vehicle being a weapon to them or someone on the other side of that stop sign, etc). (in the LEO Academy we were taught our most deadly weapon was our vehicle and not necessarily our guns, et. al.)

You did good.

 

[jon_in_wv]

+1 on the brandishing nonsense. Producing a weapon to defend your self from a threat is NOT brandishing. They are two different things. Some guys seem to think you can't draw your weapon until you've been stabbed twice and shot once. And even then you can only draw to fire a shot. God help you if you draw and don't shoot. The fact of the matter is the great majority of the time someone defends themselves with a firearm no shots are fired at all. No one should think you can wave a gun around to make a point or settle an argument but you are allowed to defend yourself. I think you did well enough.

 

[shootingthebreeze]

I have to agree with DFW #3

Avoidance of conflict is paramount.

 

[jonmerritt]

You stopped a bad situation from getting worse. I have been in those situations. You did just fine, calling the police is your call. You have your own witness, if needed. The police are not always required for these things. Most of the time they want to charge you for pretty much anything, even though they were not there, and they have no complaints.

 

[Starship1st]

You did exactly what you needed to do:

1. You determined there was a threat.
2. You took the necessary action to contain that threat.
3. You maintained control until the threat was over.

I say you did exzactly what your military training taught you.

 

[9mmforMe]

I agree with the poster who would have you focus on the road and use the vehicle as a means of defense/offense. I'm wondering if when you pulled your gun you had to slow down or even stop, thus increasing vulnerability.

A little off topic, but what brand of .380 do you own? Type of ammo? Just curious.

Very glad it ended well for you and your companions.

 

[Ole Coot]

Monday morning quarterback, you didn't get injured, no person did, no property damage so you done good. I've never drawn my weapon in the good ole USA but otherwise when it came out it went bang. You do what is necessary and forget any second guessing if you use your weapon the what "if" will drive you crazy.

 

[thralldad]

Have you been to El Paso lately? I felt safer in Iraq or Afghanistan!

 

[TexasRifleman]

What you did was textbook brandishing.

Texas law says showing a firearm is not "brandishing" if there is a justifiable threat. It would seem to me a man wielding a tire iron would be a threat, especially if there wasn't an easy way to drive right by.

Sec. 9.04. THREATS AS JUSTIFIABLE FORCE. The threat of force is justified when the use of force is justified by this chapter. For purposes of this section, a threat to cause death or serious bodily injury by the production of a weapon or otherwise, as long as the actor's purpose is limited to creating an apprehension that he will use deadly force if necessary, does not constitute the use of deadly force.

Texas has no "brandishing" law exactly. What we have is Disorderly Conduct, a Class B misdemeanor if it involves a firearm.

A person commits an offense if he intentionally or knowingly:displays a firearm or other deadly weapon in a public place in a manner calculated to alarm

So, the OP has committed the crime of Disorderly Conduct by showing his weapon, but it seems justified under the other piece of the penal code. The only way to know for sure of course is to ask a jury, and no one wants to do that.

I do agree with the others saying next time call the police. As many have said, including (if I remember right) Mas Ayoob; "the first one to call the police is the complainant, the others are suspects".

 

[HD Fboy]

I shuddered as I read this post. Over the years I have been to El Paso many many times. I have walked Over the bridge to Mexico more times than I can count with the first time being when I was 14. Lots of good memories.

Makes me sad. Makes me worry.

FWIW, I think you played it as right as possible but I would have called the police to clear the threat for future visitors to the area.

 

[tomrkba]

What you did was textbook brandishing.

Brandishing is a crime in my state.

The bad guy:
1) was speaking angry words
2) had a tire iron in hand
3) reacted to Chad's presence
4) advanced with a tire iron in hand toward Chad

Chad did not brandish his weapon. He used his weapon in self-defense against a person brandishing a weapon with clear intent to do harm.

 

[ekgandj]

With what is going on in El Paso and other border cities, you may have been lucky to walk away. Think you handled it perfectly.


Sent from iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Deltaboy1984]

Glad your alright and call the cops next time and report it.

 

[Snowy Rivers]

Glad you folks are OK

The only thing I can add and its been mentioned "Be the complainant"

The puke can call and report you, dont allow yourself to become the bad guy in the eyes of the law. Make that call, it can save you a buttload of trouble.

Sounds like you got through unscathed this time, which is good.

Your carry permit can be revoked if some puke manages to convince the LE that you threatened them without cause or provovation.

This material is right out of Ayoobs playbook and almost word for word.

We stress this sort of thing a lot. Be the complainant.

Be safe

Snowy

 

[Kleanbore]

Posted by rhodco: Having been in a similar position myself, I don't think there is anything to be gained by calling police. They don't know who the good guy or bad guy is in this matter. With no physical evidence, it's just your word against his/theirs.

The first one to call is the complainant and will have the upper hand in terms of credibility.

And by the way, letting someone see it on purpose is brandishing. Pointing it at someone is actually an assault in the state or georgia.

It may also be justified.

If he can describe what your gun looks like, the cops have you. It then becomes your burden to prove it was justified.

That's why you want to be the first to call. The assailant describes your gun; the police already know what kind it is; you have described the assailant's actions in advance. You are not on the defensive at that point.

 

[Deanimator]

I have no expectation AT ALL of being "protected" by the police, under ANY circumstance.

That having been said, that's not why I would dial 911 in this situation. Calling 911 in this situation gets you on record as the OFFICIAL victim.

If you didn't do anything wrong, there's no reason for you to not call. This world is full of sociopathic liars who will try to harm you then make YOU out to be the aggressor. Get out ahead of them whenever you can.

 

[xcgates]

Choke point anyone? Restrict movement so the target has limited options. Textbook for attacking someone. I would consider it lucky that nobody had to go to the hospital or morgue.

As for control of the car, sure, would be better for the diver to maintain control of vehicle movement, but even then he could have the passenger take the wheel, and as long as he was either in first or had an auto, pulled away cautiously while maintaining his defensive posture.

Heck, I had to jump from the back seat and take the wheel when a girl I was riding with freaked out, all because we ended up between two tractor trailers. I promptly told her to pull over and have someone else drive.

As far as El Paso, I'm guessing you have a pass for being within 50 miles of the border?

 

[Doc1911]

Yes, you may (see below) call the police BUT 'limit' what you say.

As a former homicide detective, I will simply say we looked at: (1) what you say, (2) how you articulated it, (3) witness statements from others, and (4) how the forensics either confirms or disproves statements.

Access to an attorney is WISE and allow him to do the majority (if not all) of the talking (if you have immediate access to an attorney (I have one on retainer) let him make the call for you and do ALL the talking - and don't post stuff on a forum, etc.) - you should simply say your personal information (name, age, address, etc.) and that were in fear of your life and that of your friends when person(s) unknown just tried to attack you with said tire iron at XYZ location. STOP - don't mention your gun. Let your attorney take over from here ....

 

[J-Bar]

I strongly urge moving to a different part of town, or a different town....

 

[SimplyChad]

Bursa Thunder .380 with federal hollow points. It doesn't like the expensive stuff. White box runs though it like butter tho. Might not be better then an sharp stick but it is better than a tire iron. And rocketmedic I live next to WBamc so i kinda cant help driving here.

As far as within 50 miles of the border try 8 at the most. I have spoken to a attorney about what happened he told me that robberies like that have been spiking, the city has already had more shootings and murders this year then the past 2 together. In almost 3 years here Ive seen some crazy things.

 

[xcgates]

Over here in San Antonio they say we can't go within 50, and for the most part, I don't think many mind that rule.

Stay safe out there.

 

[Lonestar49]

Good in my view/book

I don't know what he was saying part English part Spanish one part I did understand was the you think your better than me and yes he was coming at me eye to eye contact. No mistaking that. And the low speeds part well if you know el paso piedres isn't exactly a low speed street I would have been crossing blind. And when I said barrel out I mean I took aim. No brandishing just aim and he was maybe 4 ft from the window. This is why I posted this. Would y'all consider this justified? Didn't call the cops maybe I should of.
_

...

4ft away, eye contact, and closing in, bizarre, un-natural, hateful, behavior, tire iron, a most deadly weapon, you rolled up your window and then showed him the muzzle of a 380acp handgun (and who says 380acp won't do the job..?) yet - it did the job perfectly - stopped the_threat or any harm to you "or your passengers"

You got my vote of approval and the only possible mistake may have been making the 911 call and report, with description, of threat, make and model of said drugged up or drunken Spanish speaking idiot with a crowbar coming at you up to 4ft when you pulled your weapon and he immediately stopped, raising his hands and allowing you, and your passengers, "safe passage"

Then, all is safe now at this end, but you might want to chk this guy out before someone else may become an innocent, unsuspecting, victim of unproved violence..

Something like that,


Ls

 

[Buck Snort]

I won't criticize your decision to draw the weapon, there was a real threat of loss of life or great bodily harm. For MYSELF I'd've hit the accelerator, made a Hollywood stop and beat it down the street all the time telling my passengers to get on the horn and call 911. The danger was all to real from the immediate threat but then there was his two companions, either of which could have been armed and with everybody's attention focused on the main aggressor the others could have moved in and opened fire at close range. But hey, you're alive and not in the slammer. Like somebody else said, all's well that ends well. You'll spend the next week or two running this scenario through your head until it drives you nuts!!

EDIT: One more thing, I wouldn't discuss in on an internet forum until a couple of months has passed at least. All these posts can be retrieved and SOME DA might try to make it look like you were bragging about using your gun to scare off some poor minority immigrant.