First USPSA Match AAR
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Gunfighter123
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Good to hear you are going back to shoot there. I have shot IPSC/IDPA , Steel Challenge , SASS, Cowboy Action , Bowling Pin , 3 Gun Action , Bullseye , PPC , Trap etc. etc. In all the years at competion shoots , I can say that 90% of the shooters do not have a real gripe with the other sports --- most times it is from people that have never tried the other "gun game" and are just repeating negitives that they heard or were told.
I learned to introduce myself to others first and then just try to be friendly and helpfull dureing the match.
I learned to introduce myself to others first and then just try to be friendly and helpfull dureing the match.
Good review.
I shoot both IDPA and USPSA and have seen examples of "those people" you speak of that knock other shooting sports and throw the "This isn't IDPA/USPSA..." at shooters in a mocking tone.
Fortunately it seems that "those people" are in the minority and most of the folks I have shot with are there to enjoy the sport.
I shoot both IDPA and USPSA and have seen examples of "those people" you speak of that knock other shooting sports and throw the "This isn't IDPA/USPSA..." at shooters in a mocking tone.
Fortunately it seems that "those people" are in the minority and most of the folks I have shot with are there to enjoy the sport.
I agree that many of the people that have these attitudes have simply never tried the other game, or are too dense to be able to shift gears and absorb the differing rules.
I also think that making the transition from USPSA to IDPA is more difficult than the reverse. For me to go shoot USPSA this weekend I simply took off my cover garment and added a couple of extra magazine carriers. I generally just kept with my usual TTP and retained mags etc. For a USPSA shooter to try to shoot IDPA they have to get used to drawing from concealment, shooting from behind cover, and retaining magazines when they normally wouldn't. There are a lot of workarounds though, and I think most people just don't try.
I also think that the scoring in USPSA must be more forgiving, and reward time more than IDPA. At IDPA matches the goal is almost always to shoot the stage "clean" with all shots in the -0. I heard a lot of "great job!" comments for some of the top shooters at the USPSA match that had quite a few "charlies".
I could see where difficulty learning the TTP and then being disappointed with one's score or ranking could lead to a distaste for the game as a whole.
ETA:
Got a video of me shooting Stage 5 uploaded. The box forced you to do the exact same thing you would do if using cover in IDPA, and you can see that I perform a tac-reload instead of dropping the partial magazine on the ground. No bid deal either way, just combining my own TTP with the USPSA format.
I also think that making the transition from USPSA to IDPA is more difficult than the reverse. For me to go shoot USPSA this weekend I simply took off my cover garment and added a couple of extra magazine carriers. I generally just kept with my usual TTP and retained mags etc. For a USPSA shooter to try to shoot IDPA they have to get used to drawing from concealment, shooting from behind cover, and retaining magazines when they normally wouldn't. There are a lot of workarounds though, and I think most people just don't try.
I also think that the scoring in USPSA must be more forgiving, and reward time more than IDPA. At IDPA matches the goal is almost always to shoot the stage "clean" with all shots in the -0. I heard a lot of "great job!" comments for some of the top shooters at the USPSA match that had quite a few "charlies".
I could see where difficulty learning the TTP and then being disappointed with one's score or ranking could lead to a distaste for the game as a whole.
ETA:
Got a video of me shooting Stage 5 uploaded. The box forced you to do the exact same thing you would do if using cover in IDPA, and you can see that I perform a tac-reload instead of dropping the partial magazine on the ground. No bid deal either way, just combining my own TTP with the USPSA format.
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Nice reload, did it confuse the so? 
I'm a longtime IDPA shooter who hasn't shot many USPSA matches for one reason only ... the only ones local to me shoot on Sunday (and I don't).
I agree on the ease of transition ... I've seen many USPSA guys drop the mag while reloading on the move and you can almost see it register half step later In general, IDPA is more restrictive and I think that's the reason.
Interesting about the muzzle comment. One of the my few USPSA matches had shooters open a door midway thru a string. Potential for self sweeping was there, and I've noticed that all uses of a door in IDPA matches (around here) have been at start of stage. I've also suggested for years (but have given up) having stairs in a stage. I have stairs in my house so I have self interest. Safety has always been given as a reason it's not done.
Now, I'll give my 2 cents as for the bad blood. Numerous reasons:
a. A lot of it is historical, stemming from the way IDPA was formed .. suffice it to say tempers ran a bit hot.
b. Some of it comes from the fact that we promote ourselves as tactically superior .. more realworldish. I actually think that we ARE more tactically correct, tho not without our faults. I think this is insulting, or maybe seen as "silly" .. i.e. that a game could be tactical at all.
c. A big difference is in the way the rules are written. Seems like IDPA tells you what you can do, and USPSA tells you what you can't .. i.e. if it's not explicitly verboten, then it's good to go.
d. Our rules allow a lot of interpretation. round dumping, cover calls, and the overarching FTDR for "spirit violations" come to mind. No one likes earning a penalty, and many just feel they were picked on. SO's are human, and it wouldn't surprise me if some were unfairly penalized.
But yea, many of us (including me) don't have the history of bad blood and would just as soon see it die. I'd also like to see a Saturday match materialize, because thier matches are pretty fun to shoot!
Not trying to bash here, and certainly don't condone the bad blood or state that IDPA sits on higheroads than USPSA.
I'm a longtime IDPA shooter who hasn't shot many USPSA matches for one reason only ... the only ones local to me shoot on Sunday (and I don't).
I agree on the ease of transition ... I've seen many USPSA guys drop the mag while reloading on the move and you can almost see it register half step later
In general, IDPA is more restrictive and I think that's the reason. Interesting about the muzzle comment. One of the my few USPSA matches had shooters open a door midway thru a string. Potential for self sweeping was there, and I've noticed that all uses of a door in IDPA matches (around here) have been at start of stage. I've also suggested for years (but have given up) having stairs in a stage. I have stairs in my house so I have self interest. Safety has always been given as a reason it's not done.
Now, I'll give my 2 cents as for the bad blood. Numerous reasons:
a. A lot of it is historical, stemming from the way IDPA was formed .. suffice it to say tempers ran a bit hot.
b. Some of it comes from the fact that we promote ourselves as tactically superior .. more realworldish. I actually think that we ARE more tactically correct, tho not without our faults. I think this is insulting, or maybe seen as "silly" .. i.e. that a game could be tactical at all.
c. A big difference is in the way the rules are written. Seems like IDPA tells you what you can do, and USPSA tells you what you can't .. i.e. if it's not explicitly verboten, then it's good to go.
d. Our rules allow a lot of interpretation. round dumping, cover calls, and the overarching FTDR for "spirit violations" come to mind. No one likes earning a penalty, and many just feel they were picked on. SO's are human, and it wouldn't surprise me if some were unfairly penalized.
But yea, many of us (including me) don't have the history of bad blood and would just as soon see it die. I'd also like to see a Saturday match materialize, because thier matches are pretty fun to shoot!
Not trying to bash here, and certainly don't condone the bad blood or state that IDPA sits on higheroads than USPSA.
the drawing from concealment in idpa is kind of a joke. you just swipe your vest/jacket back. shooting from behind cover is something you do consciously and intentionally as it is different every time so i don't have a problem with that.
reloads though, to me at least, are reflexive. i just want to do them the same way all the time. and yes, in all three of the IDPA matches i've shot in this fall, I've dropped a mag and realized it a second too late and had to go back and pick it up. it seems no matter how much i tell myself "don't do that" before it starts, when the clock starts and my thought shifts to the target, i drop the friggin mag on the ground.
reloads though, to me at least, are reflexive. i just want to do them the same way all the time. and yes, in all three of the IDPA matches i've shot in this fall, I've dropped a mag and realized it a second too late and had to go back and pick it up. it seems no matter how much i tell myself "don't do that" before it starts, when the clock starts and my thought shifts to the target, i drop the friggin mag on the ground.
I've actually been having an excellent exchange of emails with one of the board members of the USPSA club I shot with re: rivalries, differences, etc. I hope to eventually get his permission to share the exchange, with personal information removed, for an article on my site.
helz_mcfugly
Member
you would have done FAR better if you had your yellow visor. Har! Ide really like to attend a course with Pat Rogers next time I make it down that way. I offered to host a website for "combat arms" Failure pics and details to Pat. I know he has massive pictures of failed mechanisms of lots of combat arms I could archive.
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