Fixed/Adjustable Sights

[Duke of Doubt]

Some threads earlier today made me think over an issue I've wavered back and forth on over the years, and I wanted to get some input from some of the membership.

Modern combat handguns typically are sold with adjustable sights, and many of those are of the "target" type. "Fixed" sight guns are often dismissed by gun writers as somehow less accurate.

Assuming acceptable quality manufacture, fixed sights are installed true to bore. If a handgun shoots significantly off bore line, there's something seriously wrong with the gun which adjusting the sights will not change.

The idea of (drift?) adjusting a handgun's rear sight to account for wind is comically absurd. Few guns are adjustable for varying drop experienced with different loads, other than specialized target guns. Filing down the front sight to accomodate one particular load would be asinine.

Adjustable sights get knocked off true, and can hang up on holsters and clothing.

So my question is, just why should a quality combat handgun in good repair, wielded by a competent handgunner have need for adjustable sights at all? Aren't they actually a negative thing?

 

[browningguy]

If you don't like them then don't get them. However they work fine for those of us that like them. The chances of your fixed sight gun shooting to point of aim with your selected load are 50-50 at best, you don't have to worry about that with adjustable sights.

Having said all that I think the majority of my pistols have fixed sights, probably 60-40 fixed - adjustable.

 

[Duke of Doubt]

browningguy, I have plenty of both. This isn't a matter in which I have taken a position -- it's one I'm honestly curious about. I'm looking for other opinions and arguments, not a survey of owned guns.

 

[ArmedBear]

If a handgun shoots significantly off bore line, there's something seriously wrong with the gun which adjusting the sights will not change.

If that were true, then you'd be right.

Ever shoot, say, .38 Special and .357 Magnum in the same gun on a given day, at, say 25 yards, for the bullseye?

 

[Duke of Doubt]

Armedbear: "If that were true, then you'd be right....unless you're just talking about relatively weak rounds at short distances, anyway.Ever shoot, say, .38 Special and .357 Magnum in the same gun on a given day?"

Yes, but at about 25 yards I didn't notice too much difference in drop. Maybe a half-inch. That velocity and bullet weight variation would affect drop at distance, but I would not expect significant drop variation at close range or any windage variation at all. Am I missing something?

 

[rcmodel]

It hasn't any more to do with drop then Windage also.

Anytime you change loads to a different bullet weight or velocity, there is very likely going to be both Windage & Elevation changes in POI.

To answer your question, no, it is not a deal breaker on a combat gun if you are content to hit Silhouette targets at 7 yards.

But many of use like to shoot at small targets at 50 yards, or more, and it is nice to be able to adjust the sights to the load and hit them.

rc

 

[Duke of Doubt]

I guess I'm still a dunderhead.

What would make a specific load shoot a couple inches low and to the left at 25 yards, for example? I just don't see how that's physically possible.

 

[ArmedBear]

I would not expect significant drop variation at close range or any windage variation at all.

"Expect" has got nothin' to do with it.

 

[ArmedBear]

I learned this lesson in a big way, Duke, a few weeks ago. I mean, I had the experience before, a few inches here and there.

But then I loaded up some low-velocity loads for a 10 1/2" Super Blackhawk. The thing shot REALLY high and over a little. I couldn't adjust the sights far enough to get it to shoot where it was aimed.

It turns out that time in the barrel matters a LOT. Slower, heavier bullets cause significant POI deviation from recoil and rifling torque, and the longer the barrel, the greater the effect.

Snubbies are least affected, as you might imagine -- not that you can really tell, because a fixed snubbie doesn't have the practical accuracy to make it easy to see at 25 yards or more.

But if you shoot a long-barreled revolver at distance (e.g. gong target at 50-100 yards), you sure do see a difference.

That said, I have a 4 5/8" Uberti Cattleman in .357, and it's dead-on at 25 with factory and handloaded .357, but a few inches off in windage and elevation with factory .38 and cowboy handloads. You wouldn't notice if you were shooting steel plates at 8 yards, but shooting the bull at 25, it's pretty dramatic.

 

[Husker_Fan]

I like revolvers and the adjustable sights are much easier for me to pick up quickly than a small blade and a groove in the reciever.

As to the POI discussion, my six inch GP-100 has a different POI depending on the load. However, .38 WWB 130 gn FMG hits at almost the same POI as the Buffalo Bore 180 gn LFN that I use for deer hunting. I would have to adjust the sights to be very precise with any 158gn load past 7 - 10 yds.