Unless you are a competition target shooter , why bother having them on a handgun ? Even if you were going to hunt with a handgun , at the limited ranges that you could hunt with the handgun , why bother to have them . Do they really make that much diference . I have a Ruger GP100 and really like the gun , but , Don't like the adjustible sights . They have sharp edges and seem like they could easily get broken . I've seen adjustible sights on short barrel guns / snubbies and , to me , that seems totaly unnecasary .
are adjustible sights necessary ?
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Vern Humphrey
Member
Adjustable sights have three main advantages:
1. Not all guns leave the factory shooting to point of aim.
2. Not all loads shoot to the same point of aim.
3. Not all shooters have exactly the same sight picture.
Non-adjustable sights are perfectly all right, if they shoot to your point of aim with your chosen ammo. If they don't, getting them to do it is quite a chore.
1. Not all guns leave the factory shooting to point of aim.
2. Not all loads shoot to the same point of aim.
3. Not all shooters have exactly the same sight picture.
Non-adjustable sights are perfectly all right, if they shoot to your point of aim with your chosen ammo. If they don't, getting them to do it is quite a chore.
Golddog
Member
I have adjustables on all but one of my revolvers, for the reasons outlined above.
I have fixed sights on all but one of my semi-autos. The sharp edges on factory target sights can painfully rip your hand open in an emergency clearance drill - thus they could get you killed in a defensive situation. My only adjustables on a semi are target sights on a .22 which is used exclusively for plinking.
I have fixed sights on all but one of my semi-autos. The sharp edges on factory target sights can painfully rip your hand open in an emergency clearance drill - thus they could get you killed in a defensive situation. My only adjustables on a semi are target sights on a .22 which is used exclusively for plinking.
DMK
Member
I only have adjustable target sights on a few range guns (all 22lr come to think if it). It's nice to be able to adjust for different ammo.
My SD guns all have fixed, basic sights. I never have any trouble matching POA to POI. Of course, with SD guns, you pretty much pick one brand and type of round then stick with it for a long time. Testing SD ammo is tedious and expensive. You sight the gun in with that ammo and you're done with that for a pretty long time. Practice ammo can be "close enough", it doesn't have to be right on (although some try a lot of different brands of practice ammo trying to match the ballistics of the HPs).
My SD guns all have fixed, basic sights. I never have any trouble matching POA to POI. Of course, with SD guns, you pretty much pick one brand and type of round then stick with it for a long time. Testing SD ammo is tedious and expensive. You sight the gun in with that ammo and you're done with that for a pretty long time. Practice ammo can be "close enough", it doesn't have to be right on (although some try a lot of different brands of practice ammo trying to match the ballistics of the HPs).
Used both fixed and adjustables on 4" Ruger Sixes as an LEO for years. They all got beat around to some extent and never had any trouble with either. S&W adjustables are a bit more fragile but at most the mounting screws would loosen and now and then you would see one go by at the range. The cure was loc-tite.
I still use both and each has its strong points--but in practice it's nothing to lose sleep over. Any sharp edges can be rounded to suit. On something less than a 2 1/2" K frame, I don't see much point.
You could always keep a spare rear sight unit on hand in case the original gets totally destroyed. On a GP-100 you would probably have to work the gun over with a hammer to hurt it much, though.
I suppose this could be made into a major cover story on one of the gun rags with a little effort.
I still use both and each has its strong points--but in practice it's nothing to lose sleep over. Any sharp edges can be rounded to suit. On something less than a 2 1/2" K frame, I don't see much point.
You could always keep a spare rear sight unit on hand in case the original gets totally destroyed. On a GP-100 you would probably have to work the gun over with a hammer to hurt it much, though.
I suppose this could be made into a major cover story on one of the gun rags with a little effort.
DoubleTapDrew
Member
I like fixed sights on carry guns. It's a little more work to adjust the sights (although I rarely need to at self defense ranges) but adjustable sights seem more snag-prone, fragile, and susceptible to getting knocked out of adjustment. Plus they cost more 
Vern Humphrey
Member
No doubt many a gun writer has that in his "When I run out of ideas and have picked all my belly-button lint" file.
Vern really summed it up as well as can be done. Adjustables are the way to go on a gun that MIGHT see more than one load.
I have beaten the snot out of adjustable sight guns, the only thing that has ever happened in a bad way was the pin started walking out of a Bo-Mar while shooting. Tapped it back in, and staked it VERY lightly when I got home. If I haven't broken them yet the odds of them breaking in the future are about as good as my odds of winning the lottery. Sharp edges are only a file/dremel/piece of sandpaper from being history, certainly not a deal breaker in my mind.
I have beaten the snot out of adjustable sight guns, the only thing that has ever happened in a bad way was the pin started walking out of a Bo-Mar while shooting. Tapped it back in, and staked it VERY lightly when I got home. If I haven't broken them yet the odds of them breaking in the future are about as good as my odds of winning the lottery. Sharp edges are only a file/dremel/piece of sandpaper from being history, certainly not a deal breaker in my mind.
ribbonstone
Member
It is a pain to get fixed sights shooting "on"...and only one load will be truely on....but it can be done. The whole point of fixed sights is that they are hard to get OUT of adjustment...they are nearly as difficult to hard to get IN adjustment (but once there, they stay there basically forever).
Adjustables are a lot easier to zero...but if the gun is didicated to one basic load, they may never need adjusting again.
Have two Colt GM 45's that have only been shot with two loads...both 230gr. and both RN (one FMJ on cast lead). Sights on both are adjustable...but it's been so many years, i couldn't swear they still adjust.
Adjustables are a lot easier to zero...but if the gun is didicated to one basic load, they may never need adjusting again.
Have two Colt GM 45's that have only been shot with two loads...both 230gr. and both RN (one FMJ on cast lead). Sights on both are adjustable...but it's been so many years, i couldn't swear they still adjust.
The question should be narrowed because just asking are adjustable sights necessary does not give a way to give an informed answer. It could be yes or no...
Fixed sights on a high quality firearm like a Colt or S&W in my experience will shoot to point of aim with a standard factory load, i.e., 158 grain 38 Special. 230 grain 45 ACP.
The idea of switching bullet weights, etc. is puzzling to me. Why? Because you can? The idea is to get a load that hits where the sights are looking and stick with it.
Now, if you go with a brand of handgun other than Colt or S&W, you are going to have to determine if the bullet will cut where the sights are looking or not. My suspicion is that it will not. But you may get lucky.
Fixed sights were used on all the original muzzle loaders I've seen. The gunsmith worked up a load that would cut center and the shooter shot the same load all the time.
Fixed sights on a high quality firearm like a Colt or S&W in my experience will shoot to point of aim with a standard factory load, i.e., 158 grain 38 Special. 230 grain 45 ACP.
The idea of switching bullet weights, etc. is puzzling to me. Why? Because you can? The idea is to get a load that hits where the sights are looking and stick with it.
Now, if you go with a brand of handgun other than Colt or S&W, you are going to have to determine if the bullet will cut where the sights are looking or not. My suspicion is that it will not. But you may get lucky.
Fixed sights were used on all the original muzzle loaders I've seen. The gunsmith worked up a load that would cut center and the shooter shot the same load all the time.
bhk
Member
I really feel like I need them on my revolvers due to changing the loads I use. There can be a lot of reasons for changing bullet weights or power factors during handgun ownership. An example, I use heavy loads in my 629 .44 mag. for deer hunting and then switch to .44 special loads for target shooting for the rest of the year. The sights need to be changed quite a bit to get the point of aim correct. Same for my SW .357. If I am using it for powerful loads, the rear sight needs to be changed quite a bit from my plinking/rabbit loads.
My autos (primary for ccw) usually have fixed sights. They are meant for shooting at a relatively large target up close. My revolvers often shoot very small targets at extended ranges. The 1911 I used for IPDA has quality adjustable sights because I wanted exact point of aim/impact on IDPA head shots or when no shoot targets are partially in front of my aiming point.
My autos (primary for ccw) usually have fixed sights. They are meant for shooting at a relatively large target up close. My revolvers often shoot very small targets at extended ranges. The 1911 I used for IPDA has quality adjustable sights because I wanted exact point of aim/impact on IDPA head shots or when no shoot targets are partially in front of my aiming point.
Order a Bowen Rough Country adjustable rear sight for your GP100. Very durable and less likely to snag than the factory sight.
http://www.bowenclassicarms.com/shop/default.asp?action=_top&category=6
http://www.bowenclassicarms.com/shop/default.asp?action=_top&category=6
In that case, yes. My experience is the sights do not consistently adjust and you might waste a lot of ammo switching back and forth. Not only that, but the adjustments are usually too coarse to get that gun right on the nose using the adjustments alone. YMMV It takes a pretty sophisticated and expensive, not to mention delicate if it has fine adjustments, sight to be able to consistently switch between positions and you can count the turns and know you are sighted for your alternative load.
I just buy a gun for the type of shooting I want to do and use factory loads. A 44 Magnum shoots 240 gr 44 Magnum, for example. A 38 Special shoots 158 gr ammo, etc.
Innova
Member
In a handgun used for combat or self defense: No.
Kor
Member
On revolvers, factory adjustable sights usually give a much more visible and distinct sight picture than fixed sights, which is significantly easier and faster to find and align under pressure - I believe this was Ed McGivern's reason for using adjustable-sighted guns for his fast 'n fancy shooting. Of course, nowadays you can get fixed sights from Cylinder & Slide that replace S&W adjustable rear sights and give a sight picture as good or better.
On semi-autos, adjustable sights like BoMars are too bulky, obtrusive, and snag-/damage-prone for my taste - especially when fixed sights designed by Novak or Heinie give an absolutely excellent sight picture with all the strengths of fixed sights, and none of the faults of adjustables.
On semi-autos, adjustable sights like BoMars are too bulky, obtrusive, and snag-/damage-prone for my taste - especially when fixed sights designed by Novak or Heinie give an absolutely excellent sight picture with all the strengths of fixed sights, and none of the faults of adjustables.
My Ruger Blackhawk has adjustable sights. It allows me to shoot at different ranges, with wildly different loads (from .45 Colt plinkers to .45 Colts in the magnum category). Hard to keep the same point of impact with the same POA when one is a 200gr LSWC going maybe 800 fps and the other is a 300gr LSWC going 1200 fps. And shots in between.
Vern Humphrey
Member
I have a Colt New Service in .45 Colt. This gun had a front sight about as thick as a razor blade and a rear sight notch to match. It shot 18 inches high and about a foot to the left.
Since the gun had been re-blued (and most of the markings almost buffed out), it was a shooter -- just not a very good shooter. I soldered on a 1/8" thick slab of steel, then carefully shot and filed to get elevation. I opened up the rear notch to match the front sight, "shading" the notch to the right to center the group.
She shoots great now -- but she's not in "original condition."
wanderinwalker
Member
Well, they seem to have been necessary on my latest pistol, a Ruger 22/45 MK III, 4" bull barrel. Out of the box it was about 8-10" too low at 25 yards. Luckily, ten seconds with a screwdriver solved the problem and she's dead on now!
I don't personally care which type of sights are on my pistol, so long as they are 1) clear and 2) regulated for POI/POA. That's all I ask, and that really doesn't take much to accomplish.
Though I have to admit, I'm already contemplating a switch to the fiber optic/V-notch rear as on my father's 4" Hunter model 22/45 MK III.
I don't personally care which type of sights are on my pistol, so long as they are 1) clear and 2) regulated for POI/POA. That's all I ask, and that really doesn't take much to accomplish.
Though I have to admit, I'm already contemplating a switch to the fiber optic/V-notch rear as on my father's 4" Hunter model 22/45 MK III.
10-Ring
Member
I have both and have found a place for both. I think the big thing adjustables have over fixed is that depending on the load you're shooting, you will be able to find that point of aim....competition & target shooting sure, but also as you change what ammo you're shooting might require a sight adjustment
420Stainless
Member
Probably depends on your personality somewhat. Some people can't stand the thought that the bullet strike doesn't match their point of aim. If you are one of them, then adjustable sights are necessary if you want to be happy in your shooting. I have some of each, but realistically, I usually only set my adjustable sights once and forget them. However, I now have two .357's with adjustable sights and might very well be changing those as I switch back and forth between .38 specials and magnum loads. I'll have to see what the difference is for myself to know if the adjustments are worth the effort or not.
It just depends on usage
But, for me, nearly all my handguns have adjustable sights. I rate them an absolute necessity for a good .22LR.
I like a gun to hit where I aim. And I like to be able to do it with whatever ammo I am using. It may just be a personal thing, but it's what I want.
Service autos with windage adjustable rear sights are not too bad, but you are more restricted than with good adjustable sights.
For a pocket gun, where you need to hit center of mass at a few feet distance, fixed sights are no disadvantage, as long as the front sight can be seen. Otherwise, point shoot.
As to adjustble sights being more fragile, yes, but...in nearly 40 years of using guns, I have never had a situation where I damaged a rear sight. And as a small arms repairman in the army, I saw several situations where the fixed rear sight was damaged. Against some things, nothing survives unscathed.
As to being more snag prone, if you keep your pistol in your pocket, maybe. I always found the hammer to be a bigger problem snagging than anything else.
One thing that really gripes me is a pistol that is obviously intended for hunting/target use that doesn't have adjustable sights standard. I can understand a duty pistol not having adj. sights, but something like a Desert Eagle? Standard sight, drift adjustable for windage only. The adj. sight is an expensive "option".
So, if you only shoot one load (the one that hits point of aim), no matter if it is the best load to use, then fixed sights are just fine. Otherwise make mine ADJUSTABLE.
Another thing to consider is the fact they no two people look through the sights exactly the same way. In some cases it can be a large difference. My late father was deadly with his handguns. Only shot one load (factory ammo), in each. But he looked through his sights differently than I do. Shooting his guns (and his ammo), he would use a center hold, and nail the center of the bull. I had to use a six-o'clock hold to do the same thing.
If the guy at the factory looks through the sights the same way my Dad did, then no fixed sight gun he zeros is going to shoot right for me. With adjustable sights, a few clicks with a screwdriver makes everything A-OK.
I handload, and I don't always get the same brand of .22. I need the ability to adjust my sights to match the ammo I am using. For a concealment piece, no, adjustable (target) type sights are not a real good idea. But for everything else, including a service pistol, give me the option.
But, for me, nearly all my handguns have adjustable sights. I rate them an absolute necessity for a good .22LR.
I like a gun to hit where I aim. And I like to be able to do it with whatever ammo I am using. It may just be a personal thing, but it's what I want.
Service autos with windage adjustable rear sights are not too bad, but you are more restricted than with good adjustable sights.
For a pocket gun, where you need to hit center of mass at a few feet distance, fixed sights are no disadvantage, as long as the front sight can be seen. Otherwise, point shoot.
As to adjustble sights being more fragile, yes, but...in nearly 40 years of using guns, I have never had a situation where I damaged a rear sight. And as a small arms repairman in the army, I saw several situations where the fixed rear sight was damaged. Against some things, nothing survives unscathed.
As to being more snag prone, if you keep your pistol in your pocket, maybe. I always found the hammer to be a bigger problem snagging than anything else.
One thing that really gripes me is a pistol that is obviously intended for hunting/target use that doesn't have adjustable sights standard. I can understand a duty pistol not having adj. sights, but something like a Desert Eagle? Standard sight, drift adjustable for windage only. The adj. sight is an expensive "option".
So, if you only shoot one load (the one that hits point of aim), no matter if it is the best load to use, then fixed sights are just fine. Otherwise make mine ADJUSTABLE.
Another thing to consider is the fact they no two people look through the sights exactly the same way. In some cases it can be a large difference. My late father was deadly with his handguns. Only shot one load (factory ammo), in each. But he looked through his sights differently than I do. Shooting his guns (and his ammo), he would use a center hold, and nail the center of the bull. I had to use a six-o'clock hold to do the same thing.
If the guy at the factory looks through the sights the same way my Dad did, then no fixed sight gun he zeros is going to shoot right for me. With adjustable sights, a few clicks with a screwdriver makes everything A-OK.
I handload, and I don't always get the same brand of .22. I need the ability to adjust my sights to match the ammo I am using. For a concealment piece, no, adjustable (target) type sights are not a real good idea. But for everything else, including a service pistol, give me the option.
One thing I forgot to mention. Usually a good quality fixed sight Colt or S&W will shoot to aim point with standard factory ammo IF you have good shooting technique.
I think adjustable sights are a crutch that allows a halffast shooter to think he is better than he is. You can even check out the Army marksmanship targets that shows how the 45 Auto shooter errors cause you to miss.
You should be able to shoot consistent groups before you adjust your sights, imho.
I still go back to the statement that most adjustable sights are not good enough to really get your bullets to hit aim point unless they are really flimsy, like a Bo-Mar (don't ask me how I know). :banghead:
BTW - I agree about 22 rimfires having adjustable sights. They are for plinking and 22 ammo is very unstandardized. I've not found centerfires to be as finicky as 22s. YMMV
I think adjustable sights are a crutch that allows a halffast shooter to think he is better than he is. You can even check out the Army marksmanship targets that shows how the 45 Auto shooter errors cause you to miss.
You should be able to shoot consistent groups before you adjust your sights, imho.
I still go back to the statement that most adjustable sights are not good enough to really get your bullets to hit aim point unless they are really flimsy, like a Bo-Mar (don't ask me how I know). :banghead:
BTW - I agree about 22 rimfires having adjustable sights. They are for plinking and 22 ammo is very unstandardized. I've not found centerfires to be as finicky as 22s. YMMV
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