Flash Hole

[glc24]

I purchased 1,000 once fired military 5.56 cases with the Winchester headstamp, that are already cleaned, inspected. They were also deprimed and swaged using a Scharch machine. Info from the website stated that.

I checked every one with a pocket gauge and discarded roughly 2 dozen because of (I'm guessing) too much reaming. They weren't all as bad as the one in the picture, but IMO, bad enough.

I started priming them today. I look at every pocket, checking for media in the flash hole, before I prime (hand prime) and now I am noticing some "bad" flash holes. So far I've primed 200 and set 10 (so far) aside because of this. I'm assuming some primers may have been tougher than others to remove, but the machine doesn't care about extra resistance. It gets them out no matter what.

Should I just scrap these, or are they ok to use?

One other thing too is the fact that the force needed to insert the primer is all over the place. I think from now on, if I purchase once fired, they will most definitely be unprepared.

 

[dgod]

My personal process is "When In Doubt, Throw them out". Keep them in a scrap bucket/can, then take them to the scrap yard..

 

[Bart B.]

The condition of those cases is very normal for military brass. I've seen 7.62 NATO match brass whose primer pockets are not all perfect. None of the design requirements nor specs for military brass says it's OK to be reloaded.

 

[Doublehelix]

You can try a pocket uniformer, but as has been mentioned, "when it doubt, throw it out".

 

[Rule3]

Do not know where you bought them but lots of places that sell brass like that give you a overage amount to make up foe "duds" like those.
If you bought 1,000 you may have received many more than that.

There is also the telephone to call them an ask about this, I have had a place send me an extra box of 100 for free and I only have a maybe 10 bad pieces of brass.

 

[glc24]

Do not know where you bought them but lots of places that sell brass like that give you a overage amount to make up foe "duds" like those.
If you bought 1,000 you may have received many more than that.

There is also the telephone to call them an ask about this, I have had a place send me an extra box of 100 for free and I only have a maybe 10 bad pieces of brass.

I'm thinking there probably are more than 1,000. By the time I have them (the good ones) primed, I'll know the count. When I know the final number, I'll decide whether a call is warranted, but right now there aren't enough bad ones to cause a fuss.

 

[macgrumpy]

Trash 'em. The flash hole shape helps direct and concentrate the primer flash in to the powder in a controlled way so that the powder will ignite at the base of the case and burn progressively forward. This hole wont do it's job properly and as a result who knows how the powder will burn. If you like light loads you might get a dangerous pressure spike from the primer flash traveling forward toward the base of the bullet and then the powder igniting in one big bang.

 

[Rule3]

Is the OP asking about flash hole or primer pockets, The are related but not the same things.

The tool show is a pocket measurement tool "Swage Gage"

 

[Grumulkin]

1. The flash hole isn't going to make the powder ignite too fast and cause a pressure spike.

2. I've primed many military cases in which the primer went in quite snugly; it never hurt anything and even a vigorous push to get the primer seated has never touched one off.

3. Perhaps a larger than normal or out of round flash hole will give incosistent results but it's not dangerous. Interestingly, I've posted more than once that I don't use cases with off center flash holes because I believe they could cause inconsistent results. EVERY time multitudes have come out of the woodwork saying that doesn't matter and maybe it doesn't so, I wouldn't use a case with a questionable flash hold but not because of any perceived danger but maybe from mere superstition. I've been meaning to do a test for that but haven't gotten around to it.

 

[murf]

that flash hole is too big. i'd scrap it.

murf

 

[Rule3]

Well, as I mentioned, there is no way to know what exactly the OP is about?t. It is titled flash hole but the gage showm is for a primer pocket so who knows what is to big or to small.?? Heck never even seen one of those "tools"

 

[glc24]

Well, as I mentioned, there is no way to know what exactly the OP is about?t. It is titled flash hole but the gage showm is for a primer pocket so who knows what is to big or to small.?? Heck never even seen one of those "tools"

My original post pretty much explains things. I titled it about the flash hole, but mention both. Maybe I should have explained things a bit better. Sorry about that.
https://ballistictools.com/store/index.php?route=common/home
Pretty neat tool for sure.
That is the No-Go side of the gauge in the picture. A good pocket won't let this side go in hardly at all. As the picture shows, some pockets were really bad.
I just got this tool a week ago because of these cases. I never knew anything like it existed either.

Initially, after I sized and trimmed them, I started to prime them. The third case I did, the primer went in way too easy. Now I'm worried, so I started "looking" (Googling) for answers regarding primer pocket sizes. A member on one of the AR forums mentioned this tool. So I bought it and checked every case. I would recommend it for sure.

 

[Rule3]

Yes, the primer pockets could very well be over reamed and therefore to loose. If there are a lot of them and they did not give you extra, I would definitely contact them.

You do not want loose primers!!

 

[Bart B.]

Trash 'em. The flash hole shape helps direct and concentrate the primer flash in to the powder in a controlled way so that the powder will ignite at the base of the case and burn progressively forward. This hole wont do it's job properly and as a result who knows how the powder will burn. If you like light loads you might get a dangerous pressure spike from the primer flash traveling forward toward the base of the bullet and then the powder igniting in one big bang.

One top ranked rifleman put flash tubes in 308 cases like howitzer ammo has. Took brass tubing the size of a 6-48 screw with a .085" hole in sections about 1.5 inch long to stop about even with body-shoulder point one end threaded 6-48 to fit drilled out and tapped flash holes in Winchester brass. Used same loads as "rear flashed" powders.

After a thousand rounds of "front flashed" powder charges shooting no more accurate than rear flashed ones, he quit that tedious routine. Too much work threading a 3" long decapping pin into then down in that flash tube's hole to push out primers.

 

[glc24]

Yes, the primer pockets could very well be over reamed and therefore to loose. If there are a lot of them and they did not give you extra, I would definitely contact them.

You do not want loose primers!!

Thanks.
I will get in touch with them if need be.

 

[hdwhit]

They weren't all as bad as the one in the picture, but IMO, bad enough.

I concur with "When in doubt, throw it out", particularly when it comes to .223 brass since it is so cheap.

I am not part of the "five-shot-one-hole" crowd, but the "200-meter-or-less-putting-venison-on-the-table" crowd, so my objectives may be different from yours. That said, I have been reloading .223 Remington since 1979 and so long as the flash hole wasn't obstructed, I have never given it a second look. I have, over the years, removed primer pocket crimps manually with 1) an L.E. Wilson champfer tool, 2) a Horady primer pocket reamer, both a 3) 60 and 4) 90 degree countersink and 5) a 3/8 inch drill bit Some have left the margins of the primer pocket much more "mangled" than what you show in your post. I have reloaded all of these cases and have had ZERO failures.

If you're going for precision, then my all means, carefully inspect and cull your brass for any irregularities. If, on the other hand, what you are after is a relaxing day at the range or short-range shot providing meat to the family table, then don't worry about the flash hole or primer pocket.

Personally, I would be much more concerned about that bright ring about a quarter of an inch above the case head than I would be the shape of the flash hole or the margins of the primer pocket. You might find it helpful to invest in an inexpensive otoscope (~$10 on amazon) to visually verify whether the head is separating from the rest of the case.

 

[hdwhit]

The third case I did, the primer went in way too easy.

The concern with "loose" primer pockets is that propellant gasses will make their way around the primer and the primer pocket and erode the rifle's bolt. For 36 years, the only .223 Remington rifle I had was a Ruger Mini-14. Regardless of the primer pocket's apparent tension, everything I loaded went through that rifle. During those 36 years, I have experienced essentially ZERO erosion on the bolt face of my Ruger.

 

[macgrumpy]

1. The flash hole isn't going to make the powder ignite too fast and cause a pressure spike.

Actually I didn't say that the flash hole will make the powder ignite too fast, I said;

If you like light loads you might get a dangerous pressure spike from the primer flash traveling forward toward the base of the bullet and then the powder igniting in one big bang.

But studies have proven that yes, enlarged flash holes can increase pressure by as much as 4% (2400 PSI for a 60,000 PSI rated rifle chamber). That's not a lot of pressure increase but it is an increase.

As for the powder igniting too fast, that was a reference to flash-over with light loads, I mentioned that this was possible if you like light loads.

In the worst case scenario; an oversized and offset flash hole combined with a light load, might cause either a Secondary Explosive Effect or a flash-over that could produce unsafe pressures. I don't think that there is much chance of it happening but why take the chance, toss the cases.

 

[Bart B.]

Personally, I would be much more concerned about that bright ring about a quarter of an inch above the case head

That bright ring is a safe and normal thing that happens all the time when that part of the case is smaller than the chamber. Thicker brass behind that "pressure ring" doesn't expand much. Thinner brass in front of it does expand a lot.

Here's two views of the same case. Left one shows the thick walled side and the other it's thin wall side. If that pressure ring is equal all the way around, that case has uniform wall thickness from head to mouth.

But studies have proven that yes, enlarged flash holes can increase pressure by as much as 4% (2400 PSI for a 60,000 PSI rated rifle chamber). That's not a lot of pressure

If you check SAAMI specs for pressure tolerances, there's a 3500 psi pressure increase allowance above the 55,000 psi average for the 223 Rem cartridge.

 

[Grumulkin]

In the worst case scenario; an oversized and offset flash hole combined with a light load, might cause either a Secondary Explosive Effect or a flash-over that could produce unsafe pressures. I don't think that there is much chance of it happening but why take the chance, toss the cases.

The secondary explosive effect and flash over theories are just that, theories. I believe them to be imaginary and that the high pressures encountered with low weights of slow powders in large cases is from an entirely differenty mechanism.

The concern with "loose" primer pockets is that propellant gasses will make their way around the primer and the primer pocket and erode the rifle's bolt. For 36 years, the only .223 Remington rifle I had was a Ruger Mini-14. Regardless of the primer pocket's apparent tension, everything I loaded went through that rifle. During those 36 years, I have experienced essentially ZERO erosion on the bolt face of my Ruger.

I believe you're saying that loose primer pockets won't let propellant gasses escape and I agree. I have loaded and shot some cartridges with quite loose primer pockets and there was no leak in the cartridges I shot. The only problem is that if the primer pockets are too loose, the primers will fall out. My technique now is to remove the primer and discard the case if there is no resistance to seating the primer but it's not because terrible things will happen if the cartridge is fired.

 

[mdi]

Don't really want to get into the pi$$ing match over technical terminology, but as a lifelong machinist/mechanic I'll add my opinion on the original poster's question. The gauge shown measures two dimensions; depth and ID of the primer pocket. If the gauge "No-Go" pin enters the pocket it is too large in diameter. Period. and should not be reloaded. If the gauge enters the pocket beyond the indicated depth limit, shoulder on the gauge, the pocket is too deep and the case should not be used.

For the OP; on forums most basic questions like this one are answered with waaaay too much theory and advanced technology for a new reloader to digest. You are correct to inspect the brass you bought and most will prolly work safely and since you are not an advanced bench rest shooter I'd say use the cases that do not have pockets too big in diameter. Try not to overthink the process and K.I.S.S.! and you will have a lot more safe fun...

 

[glc24]

Don't really want to get into the pi$$ing match over technical terminology, but as a lifelong machinist/mechanic I'll add my opinion on the original poster's question. The gauge shown measures two dimensions; depth and ID of the primer pocket. If the gauge "No-Go" pin enters the pocket it is too large in diameter. Period. and should not be reloaded. If the gauge enters the pocket beyond the indicated depth limit, shoulder on the gauge, the pocket is too deep and the case should not be used.

For the OP; on forums most basic questions like this one are answered with waaaay too much theory and advanced technology for a new reloader to digest. You are correct to inspect the brass you bought and most will prolly work safely and since you are not an advanced bench rest shooter I'd say use the cases that do not have pockets too big in diameter. Try not to overthink the process and K.I.S.S.! and you will have a lot more safe fun...

I have noticed this. Thanks for your input. I am infact relatively new to reloading rifle cartridges and a lot of information that is presented (and appreciated) does become somewhat overwhelming at times. I will say, I am very meticulous about most things, and IMO, this is a good trait to have when it comes to reloading. I find myself maybe overthinking too much, but in the long run it's better to be safe than sorry.

 

[fguffey]

I have a flash hole gage, it is old. It is from the early '70s. It works when the flash hole gage is used before and again after firing. It is said heavy loads expand the primer pocket.

F. Guffey

 

[Walkalong]

That bright ring is a safe and normal thing that happens all the time when that part of the case is smaller than the chamber. Thicker brass behind that "pressure ring" doesn't expand much. Thinner brass in front of it does expand a lot.

Here's two views of the same case. Left one shows the thick walled side and the other it's thin wall side. If that pressure ring is equal all the way around, that case has uniform wall thickness from head to mouth.

Here is another example of that.

It's very easy to check inside and see if there is a rut or not. No rut? Just expansion.
.

 

[glc24]

I never even noticed the "ring" until hdwhit (post #16) mentioned concern about a bright ring around the case. I started looking for that imperfection, and pretty much every case has some sort of bright ring in the same spot above the case head. Is it the brass that is just above what sort of looks like a "shadow" in the picture? If it is, and now that I see it, it kind of reminds me a little of the "glocked brass" syndrome. It is pretty much uniform around the case. I'm taking this is normal?!!