Flat top/Optics/BUIS question

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MAURICE

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Hi all,
Putting together my AR. Got the lower reciver taken care of. DPMS lower w/4 pos stock. Now I am looking at uppers. I like the idea of a 16" flat top upper. I am going to mount an Eotech/Aimpoint/Similar optic and one problem I am having is deciding to go with a standard front sight, or go with a weaver type gas block and mount a flip up iron sight. Should I bother with the flip up front sight, or will the standard sight work without being in the way?

Any advice/comments on the subject are welcome and appreciated.
Thanks,
Maurice
 
If it were my choice I would go with Flip Up. I just don't like the front sight post in the way.
 
It's a matter of personal preference. If I were to spend the money on a rail system, then I'd probably go with a low profile gas block and get the flip up front sight, otherwise, I'd just keep it as is and save the money for ammo.
 
How about running a low-profile gas block and putting a flip-up front sight on a railed handguard? That gives you the handiness of a 16" carbine coupled with a sight radius that's within an RCH of a rifle-length system.

I have a carbine set up like this; free-float railed handguard with low-profile gas block, sling swivel, and flip front sight all in a YHM kit for around $200. On this carbine, I'm running a RRA flattop upper ($99) with an Armalite 16" midlength chrome-lined barrel ($180). When you factor in the rear BUIS (Mangonel @ $90), midlength gas tube ($10), and RRA bolt/carrier/charging handle for $125, this upper is sitting at almost $750. No, it's not cheap. But it's a superb shooter that is both unique and VERY functional...

If you want, drop me a PM and I'll take some pics for you.
 
TC66- Yeah, my biggest fear was the front sight being in the way.
Thanks for all the replies folks. rbernie, I would love to see pics. Sounds like a heck of an upper.
 
I raised the BUIS so you could see how they line up and the sight radius. This arrangement picks up almost four inches longer sight radius than a standard 16" carbine with a fixed or gas block mounted front sight.

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I think that may be the way I go with my build, rbernie. I plan on mainly using the optic, but back ups are a must, IMHO. I like the way the flip ups look there. What model scope is that?
 
I put an EO Tech with a Dominator mount on my RRA. It co-witnesses just right. The red dot is just a little bit above the iron sight, so neither on e conflicts with the other.

ar's.jpg
 
OK...the first question is - do you want your sights to co-witness with the weapon at all times, or do you want them to be completely out of the way?

If you don't mind them co-witnessing with the optic, then there's really only 1 good way to go.

There's 2 kinds of co-witness. Absolute or center, where the iron sight system is centered in the view pane of the optic, and lower 1/3, where the irons align in the lower 1/3 of your view through the optic. Lower 1/3 obviously gives you a less obstructed view.

1/3 is the way to go. Next, you have to decide how quickly you want to be able to deploy your back up irons.

The fastest setup is to keep your standard AR front sight, and install a non-flipup rear sight. If your optic dies, there's nothing to deploy. The drawback is, there's a bit of clutter in your view. Some people don't mind, as the whole purpose and advantage to using a dot optic is not having to line up sights, not so much having a totally clear view.


The 2nd fastest setup would be to keep your front AR sight, and install a rear flipup sight. If your optic dies, the only thing you have to do is flip that sight up. That can be done pretty quick. This is the set up I use. You get a good view with less obstruction. I have lower 1/3 and when the rear is down, I don't see much of the front sight and it works out well. The ARMS rear springs up and you can deploy it while staying in your shooting stance....


The slowest would be having flip up sights in the rear and front. Takes 2 steps, and depending on the model of sights - might require that you get out of your shooting position. The advantage here is a totally unobstructed view. This is probably the most expensive route, as you have to buy the front flipup sight...


Where the irons co-witness is a function of the optics mount. The optics mount dictates how high or low the optic sits in relation to the irons. The irons are a constant (there are a few exceptions like short irons for use on rail systems).


IIRC (going by memory here) the EOtech mounted to the flatop directly will give you the center co-witness. You need a mount like the Larue to rise it up for lower 1/3. For the Aimpoint, the ARMS ones give you center, the Larue gives you lower 1/3. IF you decide on that route, be sure to ask and get definitive answer as to where the co-witness will stand. Don't settle for answers like "just right" or "perfect"...these mean nothing. There is a lot of confusion out there on the subject because many folks don't know the difference or do not know how to define them. Different brands of mounts have different heights.



I have the Larue/Aimpoint mount, and it's lower 1/3, use the standard AR front sight, and have a Troy flip up for the rear.



Goodluck.
 
Mine is set up pretty much as Don't Tread describes, fixed front sight but in the lower 1/3 of the Eotech's window with a Troy flip up in the rear. I can leave the backup flipped up even and it still doesn't interfere with use of the optic, since it's in the lower 1/3 of the windown.

I like it very much.

To get this done I put the Eotech on a LaRue mount, but there are other mounts too.

sbr.jpg
 
How do you like the Mangonel rear buis? I'm thinking of buying one myself.
I looked at oodles of rear BUIS, and settled on the Mangonel for a handful of reasons. First - it locks in the up position but is very firmly spring-loaded in the down position. It's mechanically simple (only one aperture, aperture and riser is a single piece), it's windage adjustments are very firm and not likely to get bumped off, and it's very unobtrusive when it's down. In short, it does what I need it to do - be a backup sight when I need it but stay out of the way when I don't need it.

Nits? For some reason, its mount didn't center on the rail and I had to crank it over to the right a fair bit to get it zeroed. Also, I would prefer to be able to substitute various size optional apertures as options. And sometimes I think that it would be nice if it were elevation-adjustable, but that would probably make it less desirable from a unobtrusive/slim/rugged perspective...

All in all, I'm happy with it and don't plan on searching for alternatives.
 
Dont Tread On Me-
Wow. That is exactly the info I was looking for. Thanks.
I think I may just go the lower 1/3 route and keep the front sight post on there. My concern was it obstructing my view, but so far everyone seems to like the set up, so I am sure it will work for me.
Thank you again.
Maurice
 
but so far everyone seems to like the set up, so I am sure it will work for me.
Not to sound contrary relative to folks who've probably got far more experience than I in this, but I've tried it and I don't like the lower 1/3rd co-witness setup. I really want to have a single cheekweld, a single consistant motion to shoulder the rifle and acquire a sight picture. I can't do that if I have to adjust my head to compensate to the different sight plane of the two sighting systems (optical and BUIS).

Just my preference......
 
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