Flight 93

[DevLcL]

I was wondering if anyone was able to catch 'Flight 93' on A&E tonight. I just have to say that personally I was very moved by it. It just shows true american resolve. The guys (and gals?) that rushed the cockpit at the end must have had emotions running through them that only veterans of brutal war could describe...

My heart goes out to any family memebers of those involved in any of the events on 9/11. We should never forget what happened that day and more importantly we need to prepare for future acts of terrorism, especially with the recently released bin laden video. If you didn't get a chance to see it I'm sure there will be re-runs. I know this isn't exactly a gun related topic but it's definetely all-american which is what THR is all about. I may be a little late on this topic but I suspect people will talk about it for a long time...

Mods: Delete thread if neccessary.

-Dev

 

[Crosshair]

To be terribly honest. I really didn't like the movie. Yes the people on board where heroes and rose to the ocasion to try and save themselves. While it is a good story on heroics and relying on ones self as well as standing up to evil. It did not make a good movie.

 

[Hacker15E]

I wasn't too impressed by this movie. The one on Discovery Channel last year, "The Flight that Fought Back", I thought was much better.

 

[Devonai]

I was too busy watching fake heroes on "24" at the time, but I'm sure A&E will re-air it between "24" reruns.

 

[dfaugh]

See my sig

 

[bogie]

Just remember - if there had been ONE law-abiding passenger or crew member with a lousy .22 on each plane, we probably wouldn't have been watching the movie...

 

[TarpleyG]

I still subscribe to the theory that the plane was quietly shot down by an F-16 in the distance. Not knocking that the people aboard didn't want to try and do something and they may have but it was all just to neatly wrapped up for me.

Greg

 

[tom barthel]

I was wondering if anyone was able to catch 'Flight 93' on A&E tonight. I just have to say that personally I was very moved by it. It just shows true american resolve. The guys (and gals?) that rushed the cockpit at the end must have had emotions running through them that only veterans of brutal war could describe...

My heart goes out to any family memebers of those involved in any of the events on 9/11. We should never forget what happened that day and more importantly we need to prepare for future acts of terrorism, especially with the recently released bin laden video. If you didn't get a chance to see it I'm sure there will be re-runs. I know this isn't exactly a gun related topic but it's definetely all-american which is what THR is all about. I may be a little late on this topic but I suspect people will talk about it for a long time...

Tom

-Dev

I saw the movie and got the message the movie presented. You are right about emotions. Not many dry eyes. Would have been nicer if made as a regular full production movie. I don't THINK I would have waited as long to act against box cutters.
For those against the Iraq action. There was a captured terrorist training camp with an old airplane body to help train hyjackers. That country was actively working to develop WMDs that would have been used against us. The A&E movie was enough to make me want to go for some one's throat.

 

[jtward01]

I still subscribe to the theory that the plane was quietly shot down by an F-16 in the distance. Not knocking that the people aboard didn't want to try and do something and they may have but it was all just to neatly wrapped up for me.

Greg

If you've ever heard the tapes of the conversations between the controllers, Flight 93 and other aircraft in the area you'd know there was no shoot down. The conversations were heard and recorded by several radio hobbiests and posted at various places on the Internet, not just released by the government. If there had been a military aircraft in the area the controllers would have been talking to him, vectoring him to his target and making sure he didn't mistake one of the other airliners in the area for a target and there were no milair comms heard, nor were any of the civilian aircraft warned of a "fast mover" (jet fighter) in their area. There were several aircraft in the area who had visual sightings of Flight 93 only a minute or two before it crashed. The first indication they had of a crash was a large smoke column coming up from a field. Had Flight 93 been shot down there would have been a large airborne explosion and likely a smoke trail following the aircraft's trajectory to the ground. None of the pilots in the area reported seeing any such explosion or smoke trail.

 

[bobhaverford]

If you've ever heard the tapes of the conversations between the controllers, Flight 93 and other aircraft in the area you'd know there was no shoot down. The conversations were heard and recorded by several radio hobbiests and posted at various places on the Internet, not just released by the government. If there had been a military aircraft in the area the controllers would have been talking to him, vectoring him to his target and making sure he didn't mistake one of the other airliners in the area for a target and there were no milair comms heard, nor were any of the civilian aircraft warned of a "fast mover" (jet fighter) in their area. There were several aircraft in the area who had visual sightings of Flight 93 only a minute or two before it crashed. The first indication they had of a crash was a large smoke column coming up from a field. Had Flight 93 been shot down there would have been a large airborne explosion and likely a smoke trail following the aircraft's trajectory to the ground. None of the pilots in the area reported seeing any such explosion or smoke trail.

Agree. There was no shootdown and beliefs to the contrary are moonbat stuff.

 

[Aguila Blanca]

Agree. There was no shootdown and beliefs to the contrary are moonbat stuff.

Oh, come on.

Next you're going to tell me they didn't film the "moon landing" at a desert crater in New Mexico.

Some people are SOOOOO gullible.

 

[VinnyT]

Oh, come on.

Next you're going to tell me they didn't film the "moon landing" at a desert crater in New Mexico.

Some people are SOOOOO gullible.

Hmm, I see conspiracy here. Where's my foil hat??

 

[1911Tuner]

Regardless of whether the plane was shot down or foced down due to the fight aboard...it gave positive proof that America does indeed produce a few heroes in this, The Age of the Common Man. Let Todd Beamer's words echo through the ages as an inspriation to future generations. "Let's roll!"

 

[Standing Wolf]

We should never forget what happened that day and more importantly we need to prepare for future acts of terrorism...

We've already largely forgotten, and we're certainly not about to prepare to deal with acts of terrorist savagry as long as the news is all of political bloody noses, sports, weather, and land wars in Asia.

 

[GTSteve03]

We've already largely forgotten, and we're certainly not about to prepare to deal with acts of terrorist savagry as long as the news is all of political bloody noses, sports, weather, and land wars in Asia.

It's a shame that the society we live in gave 3 out of the 4 hijacked planes a docile and obedient crew and passengers that didn't even consider trying to fight back against the terrorists and just sat around waiting for the "authorities" to fix everything.

 

[answerguy]

It's a shame that the society we live in gave 3 out of the 4 hijacked planes a docile and obedient crew and passengers that didn't even consider trying to fight back against the terrorists and just sat around waiting for the "authorities" to fix everything.

Not a fair comment really. When had planes been used on suicide missions before? In the past the plane would be flown somewhere and the passengers released. With that in mind taking the plane back would have been risky. With hind sight it was obviously the right (and only) thing to do.

 

[Optical Serenity]

Didn't the plane that crashed into the Pentagon have people on board who were fighting?

 

[answerguy]

oops dupe

 

[jungle]

The real reason those planes hit buildings was an attitude of passive compliance that had been fostered by the FAA since 1968. Prior to that, airlines had permitted pilots to carry weapons, this was a throwback to the days when they first started to carry mail and still do so.
After a series of hijackings in the late '60s, everyone was searched prior to boarding and pilots and passengers were not permitted weapons. Fast forward to 9/11, and airport security has sole resposibility to ensure nobody carries weapons. Despite repeated failure to discover weapons and threats, this system was the single faulty layer of defense.

Even today, after almost five years of bluster, we rely on a single layer system that has been proven ineffective many times.
Anyone with Military or good security training knows that defense is best applied in multiple layers. There has been a token attempt to arm crews, but the foot dragging and very limited training venue available can't provide the numbers needed. Little has changed since 9/11 except that people now realize that a suicide attack is now the expected result of a hijacking.

 

[answerguy]

The real reason those planes hit buildings was an attitude of passive compliance that had been fostered by the FAA since 1968. Prior to that, airlines had permitted pilots to carry weapons, this was a throwback to the days when they first started to carry mail and still do so.
After a series of hijackings in the late '60s, everyone was searched prior to boarding and pilots and passengers were not permitted weapons. Fast forward to 9/11, and airport security has sole resposibility to ensure nobody carries weapons. Despite repeated failure to discover weapons and threats, this system was the single faulty layer of defense.

Sometimes passive compliance is the right action. For example, someone puts a gun to your back it's not the time to draw your weapon. Passive compliance generally worked in the past for hijackings. But not anymore.

 

[jungle]

Passive compliance is never correct. Active security measures would prevent that weapon from ever getting to a pilots head.
There has been some effort to increase the layers of defense in the form of bullet proof flight deck doors, but I really can't talk about problems with this measure-be assured they don't represent an obstacle to certain methods of attack.

It is curious that we seem more willing to shoot down an entire aircraft rather than provide the means to shoot down the human aggressor.

 

[dfaugh]

Neil Young - Lets Roll Lyrics

"Lets roll"

I know I said I love you
I know you know it?s true
I got to put the phone down
And do what we got to do
One?s standing in the aisle way
Two more at the door
We got to get inside there
Before they kill some more

Time is runnin out?? lets roll
Time is runnin out?? lets roll

No time for indecision we got to make a move
I hope that were forgiven for what we got to do
How this all got started I?ll never understand
Hope someone can fly this thing and get us back to land

Time is runnin out?? lets roll
Time is runnin out?? lets roll

No one has the answer but one thing is true
You got to turn on evil when it?s coming after you
You gotta face it down and when it tries to hide
We gotta go in after it and never be denied

Time is runnin out?? lets roll

Lets roll for freedom
Lets roll for love
Going after satin on the wings of a dove
Lets roll for justice
Lets roll for truth
Lets not let our children grow up fearful in their youth

Time is runnin out?? lets roll
Time is runnin out?? lets roll
Time is runnin out?? lets roll

 

[DevLcL]

To be terribly honest. I really didn't like the movie. Yes the people on board where heroes and rose to the ocasion to try and save themselves. While it is a good story on heroics and relying on ones self as well as standing up to evil. It did not make a good movie.

I wasn't too impressed by this movie. The one on Discovery Channel last year, "The Flight that Fought Back", I thought was much better.

The reason for this post is not to say how 'good' the movie was but rather to salute those involved. It is a shame that they didn't put a little more quality into the film, but the message is the same. We need to throw away our old mindset and be ready for anything. The days of the common terrorist are gone folks... the threat could be anywhere. Before I take off my tinfoil let me just say that I REALLY beleive that another terrorist attack will occur in the United States within the next 6 months. Will you be ready?

-Dev

 

[DevLcL]

Passive compliance is never correct. Active security measures would prevent that weapon from ever getting to a pilots head.
There has been some effort to increase the layers of defense in the form of bullet proof flight deck doors, but I really can't talk about problems with this measure-be assured they don't represent an obstacle to certain methods of attack.

It is curious that we seem more willing to shoot down an entire aircraft rather than provide the means to shoot down the human aggressor.

No poop,

Why is it that we'd rather scramble F-15's to shoot down an entire plane full of innocent people rather then let highly qualified armed citizens get on the planes. Of course, theres always the chance that one of these terrorists could become one of these 'qualified' people, but truthfully, what american citizen is gonna give an arab a gun and put him on a commercial plane.

+1 to taking sooner action. I don't understand how they hurt anyone with those box cutters? The knifes have no point and are only sharp on one side. Furthermore they break away into sections, with the knife fully extended one could easly swat it aside and break the blade right off. I highly doubt anyone was actually 'stabbed' on those flights but rather 'slashed' or something similar.

Also, HOW IN THE HECK did he get that plastiqe on board? Lazy screeners?
I'll tell you what if I worked security at an airport every last person with slightest hint of dark skin would get a FULL CAVITY SEARCH. I believe this called racial profiling, but guess what, IT WORKS!!!!!!!! Too many people are worried about hurting someones feelings nowdays. I think people need to grow some balls.

-Dev

 

[jungle]

Aside from terrorism, prior to 9/11 there were dozens of cases of disturbed individuals who tried to gain or gained entry to the flight deck with grave results. Post 9/11 these events continue to happen.
In reality there are far more people like this than terrorists and they represent an equally serious threat. With the millions of people boarding airliners every day, which do you think you are more likely to encounter?