Flintlock priming for better reliability

[Poodleshooter]

At the range the other day, I finally started to have some ignition problems with my previously dead reliable Lyman GPR. Usually I fill the pan about 1/2 full with FFFF, and tilt the rifle to the right to get it away from the touchhole,avoiding the "fuse" effect. For some reason, after the first shot which fired with almost no delay at all, I was getting nothing but flashes in the pan over and over. I picked the flashhole, then tried again. Still no luck! Checked the flint-excellent spark! ***? Pulled the touchhole liner, cleaned it out well with a pipe cleaner, then reinstalled. Another two shots were sort of slow, and then more flashes in the pan! Pulled the ball, dumped the charge, and did a full cleaning with bore brush and patches. Another shot or two were fine and then more flashes in the pan! I noticed while pulling the touchhole with a loaded charge, that the powder wasn't running fully back to the breech. Also noticed that I can't run a screw or any other fullbore cleaning device back to the breech, as if there is a coned breech of some sort that has become fouled. I temporarily solved the problem by doing what I usually get horrible results from doing-filling the pan up against the touchhole. Normally that gives the "fuselike" hangfire, but in this case it worked.
So, does anyone know if their should be any change in the barrel diameter forward of the touchhole on a GPR?

 

[4v50 Gary]

I tend to tilt the powder towards the touch-hole. You may also want to try a larger grain (3F) for priming. Was told by Gary Brumfield (Master Gunsmith of Colonial Williamsburg) that in slow motion photography, they observed the sparks shower down into the pan and then bounce right back up. They're thinking that the sparks that don't jump up are the ones that ignite the priming powder. They found it works just as well if not better with larger grain powder (on the assumption that the larger grain arrests the bounce better). Remember that priming powder didn't really start being used until after the Revolution. Might be something there. Williamsburg wants to do more study on it (and one of our classmates offered to loan them the camera from his workplace). BTW, they show us these tapes during breaks at the Gunbuilder workshop.

 

[bfoster]

Poodleshooter,

Yes, the Lyman GPR has what was once called a "patent" breech, the invention, IIRC, of the great gun maker Henry Nock. There is a sort of elongated hemispherical cut within the breech plug itself that is coaxial with the barrel. The diameter of this feature is about 3/8". There is a small hole that is drilled in the center of the hemisphere, again coaxial with the barrel, that connects with the cross hole in which the touch hole liner is installed. This sort of breeching was long ago found to give better ignition than letting the touch hole directly into the barrel, particularly when the more coarse grades of powder are used.

One possibility for a cause of troubles like you're experiencing is that fouling has built up in the hole that connects the cross drilled hole of the touch hole and the hemispherical hole within the breech plug. I know of no better way to clean this detail than plenty of hot water (short of unbreeching).

T/C used to make a scraper that will clean the hemispherical area of the breech plug- I don't see it listed on the web site, but that doesn't mean that it isn't still available. But this tool won't clean the communicating hole.

Bob

 

[Dave Markowitz]

Sounds like the patent breech or the hole connecting the touch hole and the breech is severely fouled. If you haven't already done this, try cleaning the rifle as follows:

- Take a bucket and put about 6" or so of hot, soapy water in it. By hot, I mean HOT, nearly boiling.
- Remove the barrel from the stock, and remove the touch hole liner. Set aside the touch hole liner.
- Wet a patch, stick the breech end of the barrel in the bucket, and run the patch down the bore on a cleaning rod. When you pull the rod back out it will suck water through the breech. As you do this the barrel will become hot to the touch from the water. If it isn't uncomfortably hot then water isn't hot enough. Have a pot holder or towel handy to protect your hands.
- Pump the rod up and down several times to flush out the breech and bore.

After you are done run a dry patch through the bore. If you use water that's hot enough, this and evaporation will get the metal dry within a few minutes. Then oil the barrel as normal.

Hope this helps.

 

[BigG]

Notice you are from Mr. Jefferson's fair country AKA the land of high humidity. When I lived there I noted that BP residue, being hygroscopic, would draw moisture FROM THE AIR and coat the frizzen, pan, flint, etc. with a greasy film in a few shots, messing up ignition in short order. So, in order to ensure ignition, besides poking a pick thru the flash hole, take an old t-shirt rag and swab out the pan, frizzen, flint, between each few shots and before priming up. It will make a difference. HTH

 

[Poodleshooter]

Thanks gents!
I clean the rifle well after every range session,using the bucket method with soap and water only. Thanks particularly to bfoster for the explanation of the breech design. I think this explains why my range cleaning proved insufficient. This last cleaning session was the first in which I've pulled the touchhole liner, as I was told not to do that very often in order to preserve the threads. I'm hoping that pulling it allowed more water to move through the breech. It appears that I'll just have to curtail my range sessions once this fouling builds up.
BigG, that greasy buildup is definitely noticeable. I'm getting good ignition, as I wipe the frizzen and pan after every shot. I never could tell if that greasiness was the shorterning I use for patch lube working it's way back, or just humidity.

 

[BigG]

Coming back from Vacation...

No, it's definitely the humidity acting on the residue from your shooting. For some reason the smoke residue is greasy and will contaminate your priming if not wiped off.

It seems like BP and Pyrodex leave almost as much residue as the amount of powder you fire off. I had to clean the bore out every few shots because it would get hard to load. Finally I hit on a shotgun rod with a 12ga brush that I would put down the bbl and remove. When I tipped the muzzle down, a handful of cinders would fall out. It's really dirty stuff. Hope you have better luck with your shooting!

 

[zahc]

It seems like BP and Pyrodex leave almost as much residue as the amount of powder you fire off. I had to clean the bore out every few shots because it would get hard to load.

Ahh. I hate seeing people struggle!

I used to have that too, until I started using natural lubes, and changed my whole cleaning routine. I can now shoot all season without cleaning my rifle. Buy a tube of T/C Bore Butter and follow directions. You may be amazed.

 

[Jim K]

If you are not too much into "tradition", try using an M10 jointed cleaning rod with a .38 caliber bronze brush to clean out that breech. You can even take the handle off and run it with a power drill if you use a bore protector.

Jim

 

[littlebrowndaug]

triple F

I've seen people use the different grades of powder, and frankly I use triple F in everything. Rifles and pistols both. My Brown Bess fires round after round, and the other guns work fine with it too. I never touch pyro anymore because it lacks guts, and it does not smoke, which is an aspect of shooting these guns that appeals to me. Just my input. Gene


_____________________

Now, I know you were just kidding, but my mule, he just doesn't get it.

 

[waksupi]

I had the same problem with my Beckwith rifle. I religiously would clean it after every shooting session, but a year ago, I started having the same problem as you. I cleaned it well, then shown a bright light down the bore. Barely discernable, was discoloration at the breech, flat on this rifle. I took a breech plug scraper, and removed a large amount of fouling that had blocked the vent. It was the consistancy of cement, and took some serious work to get it out. After that, flawless performance again.

I can't say as I like the Bore Butter. I shoot alot in cold weather, and it fouls worse than any lube I have used shooting under 30 degrees. Over thirty not great either. Moose milk is my choice.

 

[panzerfuehrer]

Agree with Gene. I use FFFg in all my blackpowder weapons, for main charge as well as priming. It works great in Brown Bess, Hawken, 1858 Army, etc.

I always gave the side of the stock opposite the lock a rap after loading, and very seldom have a misfire.

 

[cornbread2]

If you do not use a cone shaped touchole liner get one. It will make your flinter much faster and much more reliable.

After I load my rifle and start to prime the pan I ALWAYS look to see if the powder is visable through the touchole. If it is visible it WILL fire.

IF not I use a pick to shove powder from the pan into the barrel.

Since the touchole liner is cone shaped on the inside there is no "fuse" action and the shot is fast.