Flip up Rear Sights and Aimpoint mounts on ARs

[Wildalaska]

Gettin an AR set up finalized...gonna be a lightweigh 100-200 yard carbine, if I have to shoot mutant zombies further than that, Ill use the M41B or the SSG that my gunbearer, Spiff, carries for me into combat

Gonna be a flatop Bushie M4gery, 14.5 inch barrel, 1-9, front sight, collapsible stock.


Question orn rear (redux)..need to hear experiences or diffs between GG&G MAD BUIS, GG&G A2, ARMS versions or Bushmaster...

Optics..Gonna use an AIMPOINT ML I guess, despite my pull with Triji, they are just so backlogged that civis arent gonna really see product till prob next year...any experieces witrh the GG rails and mounts...

Wildseptember15Alaska

 

[Blackhawk 6]

I have used the GG&G MAD & A2 BUIS as well as the ARMS #40 model, all co-witnessed with an Aimpoint. My impressions follow.

GG&G MAD: The version I used had 4 aperatures, each on a different plane to mimic a setting on the elevation wheel found on the A2 rear-sight assembly. Although adequate, mine had the annoying habit of sponateously changing aperatures during movement. It also tended to fold-down at inopertune times. This sight was also slow to transition to in the event the optic went down.

GG&G A2: Of the three this was my favorite. It is very similar to a standard A2 rear sight, lacking only the elevation wheel; no provision to adjust your rear sight beyond 300 meters. Again, it tended to fold down at inopertune times and was slow to deploy.

(It is my understanding that GG&G has added a locking detent to their BUIS to prevent them from folding down by accident. Evidently other people shared my experience.)

ARMS #40: I liked this sight because it flipped up when you hit a release lever. Unfortunately, the lever was on the right side requiring you to use your firing hand to actuate it or reach in front of your face with you left to hit it. The windage adjustment is on the left side instead of the right which always caused some confusion when zeroing (Do I reverse my correction because the wheel is on the other side or did they account for that at the factory?) Additionally, they flat-topped the small aperature making it difficult to zero/shoot at distance. Finally, there is no provision to adjust your rear sight for extended ranges (beyond 300 meters).

Personally, I always found the co-witnessed BUIS's sight picture to be too busy. I also disliked the fact that the BUIS was relatively slow to get into action. Chances are, I would discover that my optic was not working when I went to shoot somebody. That's not the time to be folding sights up or flicking levers.

Currently, I am using a see-through mount on my carrying handle to mount my optic. It requires me to use a chin-weld vs. a cheek-weld which took a little getting used to. The sight offset at close range is slightly greater which also took some getting used to. However, if my optic goes down, I need only drop my head an inch or so and I am on my iron sights, with no busy sight picture. I zero my optic at 200 meters and my irons at 300 meters.

Hope this helps.

 

[Wildalaska]

Did they add a locking detent to the A2?

I dont really worry about shooting with irons past 300, I can think of no conceievable scenario where I would, and if I had to I could Kentucky

Curious, anyone know whats being used in the sandboxes in terms of rear sights on flat tops...

How about those Aiompoint mounts....


WildthanksblackhawkAlaska

 

[Wildalaska]

Did they add a locking detent to the A2?

I dont really worry about shooting with irons past 300, I can think of no conceievable scenario where I would, and if I had to I could Kentucky

Curious, anyone know whats being used in the sandboxes in terms of rear sights on flat tops...

How about those Aiompoint mounts....


WildthanksblackhawkAlaska

 

[Blackhawk 6]

Yes, a locking detent was added to the A2.

BUIS in the sandbox run the spectrum depending on unit. Many use the KAC BUIS.

The Army mounts its Aimpoints with the factory mount, though some Soldiers may have purchased their own.

 

[greenmountaingear]

Have you seen the new ARMS#40L?

Here's a pic:

I use the standard ARMS#40 on a bushy m4 flattop w/ my EO TECH 552. The ARMS stuff is built for abuse and will give you a lifetime of service!

 

[dadman]

greenmountaingear,
How is the ARMS#40L in regeards to staying up? Do you have one, and have you tried it?

I've been looking at some flip-up BUIS and was concerned about the same things that Blackhawk 6 mentions.

Is it possible for the BUIS, improved or not, to wear and the rear sight assy. become wobbly/sloppy?

 

[greenmountaingear]

I have not used the L model yet...only the standard #40.
They are spring loaded so that they can take a hit but return to the upright zero'd position.

If it's made by ARMS, I'd stake my life on it

 

[Redlg155]

I had an ARMS#40 that was nice, but I never could get used to it.

Instead I went with a old A3 carry handle with handle cut off just forward of the sight. I haven't had any problems with this setup.

Good Shooting
Red

 

[Zak Smith]

I have a #40 and a #40L, and I'm not impressed. As far as I'm concerned, they're fine as long as you keep them flipped down, but if I'm going to have to actually use it, I dislike them. I'm generally not impressed with ARMS quality. The throw levers on my #19S's get "loose".

The Troy flip-up BUIS is superior in build quality and durability to the ARMS, and it is lower thant he #40L to boot. The only disadvantage of the Troy is that it does not have a small aperature, only large.

 

[444]

I have owned the GG&G, the ARMs #40, and the Troy.
I really shouldn't respond to this because it sounds like many people have much more experience with them than I do. I basically, mounted them, zeroed them, and then used my Aimpoint. Once in awhile I would flip them up and try them, but I really never put them through their paces. That being said, I never had any issues at all with any of them. I started out with the GG&G. It seemed to work fine but when I got a KAC RASII I had to change out the GG&G mount on my Aimpoint with an ARMs mount because of the hump. At the same time and for no good reason I went ahead and got an ARMs BUIS, I guess because I was working a lot of overtime and had money burning a hole in my pocket. I outfitted another AR (just like the one you mention) with an ACOG. I called MSTN and asked what the hot set-up in a BUIS would be for my rig and he said the current best sight (in his opinion) was the Troy. He also said that the Troy was the only one with a low enough profile to be mounted with the ACOG, so I took his advice and went with it.
For use as a true BUIS where you only use it if your optic goes down, I think any of them will work fine. If you do a lot of shooting with the BUIS, then I guess you would get into a lot more critical evaluation.

 

[JNewell]

There's another thread going on this right now...the short version is that IMO & IME when the SHTF you're unlikely to be able to deploy pop-up sights (I had a GG&G MAD). If it's for real, consider a fixed sight. They work much better than you'd think with a forward-mounted optic like the Aimpoint Comp series.

 

[Jeff White]

I use the KAC 300 meter BUIS on both my carbines. I have an A.R.M.S. SWAN Sleeve on my flattop 20" barreled M16A4 clone. I prefer the KAC backups. They are much simpler (remember this is a backup sight, your optic is primary).

I would recommend that you buy the best mounts you can afford for your Aimpoint. I presently run a KAC offset mount on my R6920. It doesn't have the extra battery compartment the GGG mount does, but I have seen some examples of poor quality control from GGG. I've got an A.R.M.S. #22M68 on the other carbine. It works well, but I've also seen some examples of poor quality control with A.R.M.S. products. I've had no problems with the Aimpont RailGrabber QR mount. It's probably the best value if you're on a budget. Many people don't like the oversized knob sticking out from the left side of the Aimpoint RailGrabber. Personally I'd stick with KAC or LaRue if you plan on removing the sight often.

You can use the the Aipoint as a ghost ring BUIS if it goes down. I made 5 good COM hits that way on an IDPA target from 50 yards just last week. Not a group to be proud of, but good enough to tell me that you don't have to take time to flip the BUIS up to hit if the zombies are in the wire....

Jeff

 

[shoobe01]

What JNewell said

A pal of mine has a fixed rear (a brown mount cut into an A2, but the sight picture is the same as an A3 with a fixed bolt-on). NO problems at all with it. The aimpoint is perfectly fast, and the whole gun occludes when in action with both eyes open.

Also, it teaches good habits, and I do not believe you can be ready enough for optic failures. This particular setup looses battery all the time (Comp ML). He leaves it on or whatever, and there is no dot. When I get it like this, I fire away without delay over irons (and now my FAL storage grip has a spare Lithium battery since he never has one).

 

[meh92]

My frankencarbine uses a PWA lower and Bushmaster 16" Superlight upper. BUIS is an ARMS#40 with a GI front sight tower. Electronic sight is an Aimpoint ML2 on an ARMS 22M68 cantilever mount.

I have about 4000 rounds through this combo so far and it works very well. I haven't been to the "sandbox" or killed any zombies yet but I'm confident that with this settup any undead staggering within ~150 yards of me would be soup!

I just got back from a 550 round range day. Using the BUIS in a prone position the A-zone of an IDPA target was easy pickin's. Head shots took a little concertration but were not too difficult (aim small... miss small). Using the ML2 was like cheating.

I'm not a big fan of collapsable stocks. They don't offer a terriffic cheekweld and reportably don't hold up well to "socializing". I use a GI-A1 stock but there are a wide vareity of aftermarkets fixed stocks in all sorts of overall lengths to suit your needs. If you don't plan on switching bertween heavy body armor and a t-shirt, consider a fixed stock.

I have had no problems with my combo and recommend it.