Flying with my gun

[PennsyPlinker]

I know this topic has been discussed, but I don't seem to be able to hit the right combination of search words to bring up the threads. Perhaps some kind soul can help me out here.

I am going to be getting on a commercial airplane for the first time in 28 years. I will be traveling to a state which honors my CCW, so I would like to take one with me. Where do I need to go to find out all the rules, etc about how to do this with a minimum of fuss and bother with the friendly people of the TSA?

Thanks.

 

[Thain]

Abracadanba! http://www.tsa.gov/summer/firearms.htm.

 

[PennsyPlinker]

Thanks Thain!

 

[jeepman77cj5]

hey Pennsy, as an airline employee who travels on multiple airlines with my own firearms, don't forget to check with the carrier you are traveling on and find out their details as well. More so towards ammunition, but the firearm itself also. Seems almost all the carriers have some minor differentiating detail. Their policies and the TSA policies work hand-in-hand on firearms and ammo. If you've already done that?, well congrats. Just trying to add my .02 for help.

 

[GHF]

Overview

Having traveled a number of times, here's how I go at it:

1. Put the unloaded weapon(s) in a lockable hardsided case with locks only you have the keys to open. TSA locks are not allowed.
2. Check the airline(s) you are flying on:
   • Determine if the ammo MUST be in boxes OR can fly in loaded magazines.
   • If loaded magazines are permitted, make sure the pouches fully cover the magazines.
   • The round from the pipe(s) must be in a box, not loose.
3. Secure and protect magazines and ammunition boxes from possible damage.
4. Put the lockable hardsided case with the weapon and the ammo/magazines into a cheap, non-descript bag - with clear labeling outside and inside - for checking in. The labeling should be limited to:
   • Your Name
   • Your Cell Phone - if you have one, or your home phone if you do not
   • Your personal email address - if you have one
   • NO ADDRESSES, JOB TITLES, ORGANIZATIONS SHOULD BE INDICATED
   ​
5. Other stuff - like shampoo, mouthwash, toothpaste, etc, could be in this checked bag also.
6. Check this non-descript bag at the airport. Have the rules for the airline in hand.
7. Make sure you have the keys to the lockable hardsided case with you and you alone http://ecfr.gpoaccess.gov/cgi/t/tex...v8&view=text&node=49:9.1.3.5.9.2.10.6&idno=49 at all times. You will have to open the lockable hardside case to demonstrate to the airline that the weapon(s) are not loaded at checkin, and if the TSA wants to see.
8. Have the serial number(s) and descriptions of your weapons on you, so if they "disappear" you can report the loss/theft to the airline, local police and the ATF immediately.

Other points to ponder:

1. Can you possess the weapon at all your stops.
2. Where can you carry and how at all your stops. Check www.handgunlaw.us and www.packing.org.
3. What are the deadly force rules in each state you are visiting. Check www.packing.org.
4. Have a copy of the Don Young Transportation Letter on hand - http://www.anjrpc.org/DefendingYourR...s letter.pdf. This covers changing methods of travel - car to plane to car - in a single journey.

 

[Hemicuda]

It is much more popular to use a plane, helecopter, or glider to fly, and I hear that brooms are even used occasionally... I've never heard of using a gun to fly, but hey, if you can pull it off, great!

 

[Thain]

Hemicuda, you just need something of large caliber, point it down, and you're off! Didn't you know that in addition to killing the dinosaurs, a M1911A1 will also allow the average man to rack up frequent flyer miles!?

 

[Smellvin]

To piggy-back on and expand this topic, I was wondering how people going on big game hunting trips to Africa transfer their rifles/ammo? Is there any website like the one above with general procedures to follow?

 

[PennsyPlinker]

Thanks for the responses guys - except for you weisenheimers of course!

A follow up question for anyone still reading. How many of you use the case that any particular handgun came in, or do you buy something a little bit better? I have a number of different cases, and the only one I would even consider being really secure is the one Sig Sauer I have. Any of the others could easily be pried open by even a junior goon from the TSA. I know, because I had to pry one open myself one time.

I need to call the airline for some specifics, but it looks like there won't be any real problem judging by their website.

 

[Cacique500]

DO NOT rely on the TSA regs, they are not the actual law.

http://ecfr.gpoaccess.gov/cgi/t/tex...v8&view=text&node=49:9.1.3.5.9.2.10.6&idno=49

The link above is the actual Federal Code for carrying weapons while flying...specifically 49 CFR 1540.111

On TSA's info page, they "suggest" the passenger give them the key or combo...this is AGAINST FEDERAL LAW. The actual law, 49 CFR 1540.111.3.c.iv says: "The container in which it is carried is locked, and only the passenger retains the key or combination."

Do NOT surrender your key or combo to TSA - they have the right to inspect the container that the firearm is in but they are NOT allowed to touch the firearm or "use" your key or combo.

I've gotten into it with a few TSA folks over this so sorry about the attitude - still makes me mad thinking about it. Have a copy of the regs linked above and if you get any **** from TSA ask for a supervisor and a federal marshall (because they are trying (involuntarily) to have you break the law when you hand over the key or combo. Be polite and be firm and know that the law is on YOUR side.

I had one TSA agent in Dallas tell me I had to give him the key and he didn't care what the CFR said. Said his TSA manual said I had to give him the key. Tried to explain that the CFR is what his manual is based on and that it's incorrect. A supervisor quickly solved the problem to my satisfaction.

 

[PennsyPlinker]

Thanks for the link Cacique500. I will be printing that out to take with me. I remembered reading it somewhere a while back.

I had an interesting conversation with the nice lady at the airline this afternoon. I was reading the airline's website about carrying firearms on a plane, and got to the part where it said that one gun in its box was considered one piece of carry on luggage. Now I could easily see where a rifle or shotgun would qualify for that, but I did not think a handgun in a box in a suitcase would fit that description, so I did like the website suggested, and called with my question.

At first all she wanted to do was read the website to me. I already knew that stuff, and politely reminded her why I was calling, to clarify the amount of luggage I would be able to bring on board for the ticket price.

Then she said, "Well I don't think you really want to put your gun in checked luggage. Something could happen to it. I should think you would want to keep it in your carryon luggage after you present if for inspection."

​

"Uhh, as much as I might agree with you ma'am, I don't think "They" are going to see it that way."

So then she put me on hold. After a long time, probably a couple of minutes, she came back on to tell me that her supervisor recommended that I ship my gun via Fed Ex or UPS to wherever I was going so I would not have to worry about something happening to it on their airline. I think what she really meant was so that they did not have to worry about something happening to it on their airline.

I told her that was impractical, and she sympathized with me. She went on to say that she just didn't want anyone from the TSA stealing my gun. I told her if they did, they would just have to replace it. It would be declared along with all sorts of information, and TSA is responsible for my security, right?

So it is going with me, although it may turn into an adventure. A good friend of mine recently commented that things happen to me just for the purpose of my being able to relate them to others in story fashion. Let's just hope this one is short and boring.

 

[Cacique500]

When I have to fly (which I now try to avoid like the plague) here's what I do:

I have a pelican case that is large enough for a couple of pistols, knives, flashlight, etc. Locked with two key-type masterlocks. I retain the key...always.

I have a second, smaller pelican that I put the ammunition (in original packaging) and empty mags...sometimes an extra knife or two. Small pelican has two 4 digit TSA combo locks with indicator lights. Both pelicans go into a soft-sided duffel bag that is locked with a TSA combination lock that has the indicator light to see if TSA unlocked it. Then I'll throw misc. clothing or whatever to fill up the rest of the duffel.

When I check in, I declare the firearm at the counter...they give me the stupid little form to fill out, and I put that in the pelican with the gun. I then re-lock the pelican, put it in the duffel and relock the duffel. I relock it right then because at larger airports they'll take your bag to TSA, scan it, and you're all done...that way I know it was correctly locked. At smaller airports, sometimes they will make you open the case so they can "inspect" it. Remember too that they are not allowed to touch the firearm at any time...had a guy in Mobile, AL hand search my bags one time and he actually picked the pistol up to look at it...I was apoplectic and immediately asked for a supervisor.