FMJ's for hunting?

[Beak50]

I have read and heard about people hunting with FMJ steel core ammo.I have never used them for hunting when I use to hunt but I got into a little argument at Wal-Mart with a younger guy who kept insisting that since the Army uses them to kill people they are the best for killing game.After trying to explain to him about different types of bullet's and expansion ect.I finally gave up.Has anyone had a run in with today's misinformed youth?I haven't hunted in yrs. but is there a law against using them for hunting?

 

[zdc1775]

I don't know about all states but it is my understanding that here they are against the law to even have in your possession while hunting game animals.

 

[Curator]

FMJ bullets are required by the Geneva Convention, They are designed to be less destructive, wounding instead of killing even though they can be quite deadly. The theory is a wounded soldier takes more people out of combat (him plus a care-giver) than a dead one.

As far as hunting goes, solids (a kind of FMJ) are used on large dangerous game in Africa, and FMJs are legal to hunt fur-bearing animals in some States. Using them on American big game animals is illegal as they are significantly more likely to leave a wounded animal in the woods than an expanding bullet.

 

[jmr40]

FMJ bullets are required by the Geneva Convention, They are designed to be less destructive, wounding instead of killing even though they can be quite deadly. The theory is a wounded soldier takes more people out of combat (him plus a care-giver) than a dead one.

Urban Myth.

The Hague Accords decided that soft point bullets were too inhumane. Not the Geneva Convention. The USA never signed anyway. Most militaries use FMJ for several reasons. They feed more reliably, penetrate barriers better and are cheaper to produce. Has nothing to do with only wounding.

Many, if not most states ban FMJ bullets or hunting. They will kill, but it often takes longer for animals to expire and may not be recovered. A quality softpoint puts game down faster.

 

[303tom]

Can`t use FMJ`s for hunting in the state of Missouri............must have exposed lead.

 

[Sam1911]

You could always point him to the PA Game Code, Title 34, Chapter 23, section 2322. "Prohibited devices and methods."

(a) General rule.--Except as otherwise provided in this title or commission regulation, no person shall hunt, kill or take or attempt, aid, abet, assist or conspire to hunt, kill or take any big game, except wild turkey, with any of the following devices or methods: ...

(4) Any projectile which is not all lead or which is not designed to expand on contact.

 

[adelbridge]

we use .223/5.56 fmj on hogs down here in TX. The smaller lighter projectiles veer off course once they hit soft tissue. You can shoot them in the neck and have it come out the stomach. Most guys use them to save money over hunting rounds and hogs are often shot and left behind. For better or worse shooting and leaving a hog is not considered a sin in TX.

 

[Slamfire]

but I got into a little argument at Wal-Mart with a younger guy who kept insisting that since the Army uses them to kill people they are the best for killing game.

Just walk away from people like this: a little knowledge is a dangerous thing.

Dum-Dum bullets were so good at killing people, that is the reason they were banned. The real reason was political, there were players at the time who wanted to embrass the British and the "inhumanity" of SP bullets gave them a club to use.

Of course FMJ are a bad choice for game hunting.

 

[Art Eatman]

The bullet boys spend gazillions of dollars trying to develop a hunting-rifle bullet which will retain most of its weight while expanding to near-triple its diameter. That means more tissue destruction and faster bleed-out.

FMJs can't do that.

 

[brnmuenchow]

I have never used FMJ's for hunting and never will. However for "pest control" here in Texas coyotes, hogs, etc.. using my BlackHills "Gold" Barnes TSX is overkill ($ wise anyway). For that kind of stuff my old fashioned Mosin Nagant or SKS/AK Steel cased FMJ's are just fine.

The bullet boys spend gazillions of dollars trying to develop a hunting-rifle bullet which will retain most of its weight while expanding to near-triple its diameter. That means more tissue destruction and faster bleed-out.

FMJs can't do that.

I agree with this, as far as bullet technology for hunting vs. using FMJ's.

 

[caribou]

I post Hunting vids here, and in ALL of them I use FMJ's. except in .22or 12 gauge.

They are not illegal in Alaska, but since they keep together, they make for great penetration.The 7.62X54R I use is exceeedinly accurate in my Mosin, and since I want to place the shot, I use the most accurate ammo and rifle combo I have to great effect.

They are Called "Alaskan Solids" and miminc the African solids in penetration. Excellent Brown Bear abnd Polar Bear bullets for sure.Eskimo use them to get through the 2-4 inches of Blubber of small whales and Seals and on through to vital organs and death

Its all about placement, and a .30 cal FMJ through your brain, smashing your spine or passing through your heart lungs will kill you as dead as a hollow or soft point doing the same.
Fact is , the Chezk and the Russian light ball I use 'tumble" and yaw after penatration makeing for some seriously wicked wouldns through an animal.

FMJ's are NOT "Wounding" bullets, if given a choice, you do not want to be shot with a FMJ over a soft point from a 30-06......no,you do not want to be shot at all........

 

[bergmen]

FMJ (or any non-expanding bullet) is illegal to hunt with in California.

Dan

 

[MCgunner]

I don't use 'em. Loosing a nice deer because you were too cheap to buy good bullets is pretty dum dum if you ask me.

 

[GCBurner]

Illegal for hunting in Florida, too.

 

[mgmorden]

Illegal to use for hunting here in SC. My dad didn't know this (he hunts a ton, but outside of hunting really isn't into guns) and about 10 years ago grabbed a few .30-06 FMJ steel cased Barnaul bullets out of my ammo stash. FWIW, the doe he shot with them was a bang-flop, though after I informed him that those bullets weren't legal to hunt with he hasn't use them since.

 

[06]

Have lost one deer in my life and it was from using a "hollowpoint" 7.62X39. I emphasized hollowpoint because it is not a true one. The tiny hole just does not do what a real hollow point or soft point does. Used an SKS on a "spur of the moment" deer instead of changing to a mag of soft points. That "Wally world genius" is a do do and should not be in the gun area with advice like that. He has absolutely no knowledge of real world shooting. Call his manager and tell him that he is causing the injury of countless animals by "pushing" FMJ ammo for hunting.

 

[MCgunner]

That "Wally world genius" is a do do and should not be in the gun area with advice like that. He has absolutely no knowledge of real world shooting. Call his manager and tell him that he is causing the injury of countless animals by "pushing" FMJ ammo for hunting.

Walmart gun counter personnel are more likely than not to be clueless. You get what you pay for.

 

[shiftyer1]

My son sent grandma to walmart for some .22lr, she was given .17 hmr. Ma didn't look at it and brought it home. My son called me and told me the .22lr bullets looked funny I asked what he meant and he described them. I wasn't aware of a pointy .22lr. I asked what the box read. He told me .17hmr. They are there to sell you what you want, that doesn't mean they have a clue what they're talking about.

I try to use expanding bullets, on hogs I sometimes use fmj's from a mosin and I have the same result. I also haven't had a problem with sks and hollowpoints although they don't expand near like you would expect them to.

 

[WardenWolf]

PRVI Partizan has some NASTY 7.62x39 soft points right now. They're round-nosed and look like a .30-30 round. If you're looking to use an SKS or AK for hunting, there's your answer. I bought some. Haven't shot them yet, but I tested their feeding and they feed just fine.

 

[blarby]

NAY.

 

[Sav .250]

I don't use 'em. Loosing a nice deer because you were too cheap to buy good bullets is pretty dum dum if you ask me.

I like that.
FMJ..... Has it`s place but not for hunting. What others do is their business.

 

[brnmuenchow]

Have lost one deer in my life and it was from using a "hollowpoint" 7.62X39. I emphasized hollowpoint because it is not a true one. The tiny hole just does not do what a real hollow point or soft point does.

Agreed, I do not use the 7.62X39mm HP's it IMO is practically worthless unless you are plinking around... I like the 154gr. SP's for hunting.

 

[Kachok]

Here are the issues with FMJs for hunting. While in theory they are capable of dealing just as much soft tissue damage they almost always change direction once they yaw, so your perfecly aimed double lung shot might end up in the gut instead or even coming out the top of the back, and the yaw is not as consistant as an expansion. Take the 223/5.56 62gr for example, hitting the same target at the exact same speed and angle, according to the US Army ballistics lab they can yaw as soon as 2" of penetration, and as late as 14". A shallow yaw will likely fragment the bullet causing a very shallow nasty wound that will not pass through the vitals, and a late yaw will make a tiny pinhole through the vitals making for a wounded animal that will die a very slow death and you will likely never recover. Compare that inconsistent performance with my experience with my Nosler Ballistic Tips which have in every single case I have used them drive in about 2" before expanding rapidly fragmenting some of the front portion through the vitals and plows a nasty hole out the other side, always keeping a straight wound tract. Textbook perfect performance and no deer has made it more then a few feet. Would I trust my hunt to a FMJ even if they were legal? NEVER!

 

[caribou]

Hahahahahah!!!!!

You guys...........:banghead:

Ive been hunting for a living for 26 years now, have shot uncountable Caribou, 18 BrownBears, way more Blacks, Muskox and Moose, uncountable wolves, even Rabbits......as well my sons hunt Walrus, Seals, Polar Bears and Beluga Whales, all with FMJ to great effect.

Do you have to be North of the Arctic Circle to have animals die from a singel shot with a Bullet???

Common, how many here actually have some sort of "Experiance" hunting with FMJ's where its illegal?

Its leagal here, I use them all year long and there NO DIFFERENCE in how long it takes an animal to die from a well placed FMJ.

All the bull<deleted> that has appeard on this thread is conjecture thought up or BS reitterated by those who do not know or have actual experiance.

.243W is amighty fine round too, that can, will and does Kill every animal in Alaska.............same for .223.

Fact is, if your a bad shot with FMJ's its as bad as missing or wounding with a misplaced soft point.

Placement is everything.........no matter the projectile. Right here, on these boards are NUMEROUS threads with guys that wounded and lost Deer, Elk, Bears, ect useing SOFT POINT ammo, and I have yet to read ONE person, other than myself that has actual hunting experiance with FMJ's and those that do have experiance wont post the cojecture of those that dont .


FMJ's.....if they are legal where you hunt, they will do you fine if you place the bullet, no matter its size or construction, in the right place.
All the softness inthe world wont help you shoot better.



Hahahahahahhahahahahahhahahahah!!!!!!! The truth wether you like it or not.

 

[Sam1911]

It's funny in a way -- obviously FMJs can kill, and kill perfectly well. "Dead right there" as they say.

We all spend a lot of time and energy trying to pick what's the very most perfect balance of performance between this and that bullet, at this or that speed, and the manufacturers spend millions to develop something just a little better, just a little more consistent, that holds together under just a little bit harsher impact, etc. But it is incredibly hard to quantify how much difference any of that makes on game.

We all know it makes some difference, of course, and have seen examples of really great tissue damage, wound channel, and so forth with various bullets. But the fact remains that we DIDN'T see exactly the same shot made with an equivalent FMJ round at the same time. We didn't see that animal stagger off wounded because of a "good" FMJ hit, and the same animal die from the same HP or SP hit. All of our beliefs about the matter are a combination of (usually just a little) personal observation (just a little, as very few of us will ever take a shot at an animal with an FMJ at all!) and a whole lot of advertising, and what we hear other people say (who often have just a little personal experience as well). And we are subject to having heard many tales of this or that bullet "not performing" which we may believe would be more truthfully told as the HUNTER not performing his job correctly than in implicating the bullet -- whatever it was.

Of course, we know that a perfect hit with an FMJ will kill just about anything on earth. So what we're trying to buy with higher performance ammo is margin of error for our imperfect shots. And we believe we do buy some with our hollowpoints and other expanding ammo, but is that margin of error 2%? 20%? 90%? There's no way to really tell, so it becomes a matter of "faith." And like religion, mine's better than yours!

Many different kinds of rounds (from patched round balls to saboted shotgun slugs to "Bonded Core Ballistic Tip Terminal Triple Whammy" bullets -- from everything between .17 cal up to 12 ga.) will kill an animal as quickly as we might like under the right circumstances. Or WON'T, under the wrong ones.

What is "ethical" as regards killing a living being is a hotly debated topic here. (Call it "predators' guilt," I guess. ) But everyone seems to have different boundaries for "ethicality." An animal killed "DRT" with an FMJ is no less ethically killed than one that gets eviscerated by the most impressive expanding HP anywhere. An animal head-shot with a .22 LR that falls to the ground and expires is ethically killed -- or as ethically as killing can be accomplished.

But is it ethical to TRY to make that perfect shot, believing that your margin of error is small?

If you are trusting your life to the meat you bring home, and your bullet of choice is an FMJ -- and you're killing what you shoot at with reasonable certainty -- no one on earth can tell you you're acting unethically.

If you (as I do) wish to increase that ephemeral, impossible to quantify, "safety factor" by shooting an expanding bullet, that's certainly no less ethical. Maybe there's even some real benefit to it. The manufacturers of bullets, and many of the state game departments, sure would tell us we may believe it!