FN: Civilian-legal SCAR on agenda, 1-2yrs away
- Thread starter Kharn
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Beren
Moderator Emeritus
Impactguns wasn't my source, but they do help corroborate. ElT can be my uncle now, too!
HankB
Member
I've seen pix from the SHOT show, but I've yet to see any of the guns actually in retail channels.
Didn't Ruger show their XGIs around before they cancelled the program?
El Tejon
Member
We'll see if I'm a monkey's (5 of them now) uncle, or if I'm just right again. 
Hank, I remember Ruger XGs at a SHOT show in the early '80s maybe? I have to ask my dad, cannot remember year. Anywho they had a few prototypes and were asking for pre-orders, hmmm, sounds familiar. Remember, Ruger made tens of thousands of them.
Corr, lol, yes that would be a nightmare. Domestic production of Bush banned weapons is a high concern of ATFE. Cannot foresee them allowing such a thing.
Don't get me wrong, I hope it happens and we are up to our armpits in guns, but I don't see the feds allowing it.
Hank, I remember Ruger XGs at a SHOT show in the early '80s maybe? I have to ask my dad, cannot remember year. Anywho they had a few prototypes and were asking for pre-orders, hmmm, sounds familiar. Remember, Ruger made tens of thousands of them.
Corr, lol, yes that would be a nightmare. Domestic production of Bush banned weapons is a high concern of ATFE. Cannot foresee them allowing such a thing.
Don't get me wrong, I hope it happens and we are up to our armpits in guns, but I don't see the feds allowing it.
El Tejon:
Or, is my copy of the federal firearms law missing a section that states the ATF may arbitrarily deny permission to produce weapons in the US?
Kharn
But what can the ATFE do to legally stop such production? If it complies with the importation law, is not a machine gun and has a bore under 0.500", its just like any other semiautomatic rifle on the market.
Or, is my copy of the federal firearms law missing a section that states the ATF may arbitrarily deny permission to produce weapons in the US?
Kharn
ny32182
Member
ATF can't do crap about a domestically produced .223 semiauto rifle, whether they like it or not. Lots of ARs, Mini14s, AKs, etc, built and sold every day.
I think some rumors are more likely to hold water than others.
The XCR will be here one day. Sure, it is almost a year late now, but considering they don't have a single government contract on the table to my knowledge, the only way they are going to recover their R&D costs is through civilian sales.
I won't believe a civilian Sig 550 till I see it. Doubt Sig has any interest in producing rifles here, and don't know of any time where they have demonstrated such interest.
HK? They did sell the HK-91 and derivatives here. More recently, the SL8 *during* the awb. Civ G36 doesn't sound totally out of the realm of possibility, but still unlikely.
FN? They continue to sell the Five Seven despite the backlash. There are undeniable, confirmed, real deal statements that they intend to sell a P90 and F2000. I don't find it difficult to believe that they wish to sell a SCAR. Just the fact that it is "SOCOM's rifle!!!!" would drive sales through the roof.
I believe my next rifle is going to be of the new generation. Preferable choice for me would be a SCAR, with an XCR a close second. Maybe one of each. If the SCAR never materializes, make mine an XCR, 16", 5.56, full ambi controls.
I think some rumors are more likely to hold water than others.
The XCR will be here one day. Sure, it is almost a year late now, but considering they don't have a single government contract on the table to my knowledge, the only way they are going to recover their R&D costs is through civilian sales.
I won't believe a civilian Sig 550 till I see it. Doubt Sig has any interest in producing rifles here, and don't know of any time where they have demonstrated such interest.
HK? They did sell the HK-91 and derivatives here. More recently, the SL8 *during* the awb. Civ G36 doesn't sound totally out of the realm of possibility, but still unlikely.
FN? They continue to sell the Five Seven despite the backlash. There are undeniable, confirmed, real deal statements that they intend to sell a P90 and F2000. I don't find it difficult to believe that they wish to sell a SCAR. Just the fact that it is "SOCOM's rifle!!!!" would drive sales through the roof.
I believe my next rifle is going to be of the new generation. Preferable choice for me would be a SCAR, with an XCR a close second. Maybe one of each. If the SCAR never materializes, make mine an XCR, 16", 5.56, full ambi controls.
ttbadboy, I'm getting 30 of the first XCRs off of the line, so I've been keeping up on them. Last week they were hoping to start shipping in 5 weeks, but they have been overly optomistic on time throughout this whole thing. Even then, they should be out in the next couple of months.
If FN doesn't ship the SCAR it will be because of business decisions, not .gov pressure. Realistically speaking, the new generation of black rifles does the same exact thing as the old generation of black rifles except you can hang stuff off of them easier.
If FN doesn't ship the SCAR it will be because of business decisions, not .gov pressure. Realistically speaking, the new generation of black rifles does the same exact thing as the old generation of black rifles except you can hang stuff off of them easier.
It is hard to compete with the AR.
You can start with a bargain basement rifle and end up with a top of the line rifle with all the accessories, without that nasty starting cost, this seems to be a major point with most of the posters on THR. All the "How do I get a $1000-$2000 rifle for $500" posts suggest that these new offerings, at the prices they will undoubtedly sell for, will not do well in the marketplace.
No matter how much some of us might want them to.
I would not mind owning something along the lines of an XCR or the FN SCAR candidate, but they simply will not sell well. Most folks will say "too expensive for me".
You can start with a bargain basement rifle and end up with a top of the line rifle with all the accessories, without that nasty starting cost, this seems to be a major point with most of the posters on THR. All the "How do I get a $1000-$2000 rifle for $500" posts suggest that these new offerings, at the prices they will undoubtedly sell for, will not do well in the marketplace.
No matter how much some of us might want them to.
I would not mind owning something along the lines of an XCR or the FN SCAR candidate, but they simply will not sell well. Most folks will say "too expensive for me".
NM, I think there is a market. Not a big market, but a decent sized one. The black rifle has gone from being a niche fad, to a pretty mainstream thing, with hundreds of thousands of ARs sold. Take a nice AR ($800 approx) and put on a rail system and some of the widgets and you are in the low thousand area easily, and those guns are becoming more and more common. I don't see them being huge sellers, but I see them selling like the $1000+ 1911s do.
The US is the last big market for semi auto rifles.
Sure a few can be owned in Germany, Canada, New Zealand, Norway, ect
But if they want to make money outside the military/govt/security sector, they have to sell to the US civilian market which includes security guards and invidiual LEOs
Sure a few can be owned in Germany, Canada, New Zealand, Norway, ect
But if they want to make money outside the military/govt/security sector, they have to sell to the US civilian market which includes security guards and invidiual LEOs
NMShooter:
And, anything used by SOCOM pretty much sells itself when it comes to gunnies, no need for an expensive media blitz.
Pretty much, its an easy way for them to keep the production line running between government contracts.
Kharn
These weapons fall into the Les Baer AR15, Springfield Loaded M1As, HK 91/93/94, etc category, very expensive, very high quality weapons. They might not sell a million of them, but thats factored into their pricing/marketing.
And, anything used by SOCOM pretty much sells itself when it comes to gunnies, no need for an expensive media blitz.
Pretty much, its an easy way for them to keep the production line running between government contracts.
Kharn
El Tejon
Member
Number 6, tiny botiques are not the same as ZIG or FN domestic production. Economies of scale could make these weapons affordable and widely available, a governmental nightmare.
I would bet that most of the people who own multi-thousand dollar ARs started off with one that cost less than $800. People are funny, they are willing to spend a few grand on a rifle, but they dont want to spend it all at once. Certainly all the big EBR guys will be all over the new stuff, but thats a small segment of the market and once they get their new guns they wont be buying too many new ones. All the new EBR shooters are still going to be starting out on AKs and ARs and once the new-gun smell wears off they wont be as inclined to switch to the high-dollar imported guns.
Im pertty sure that the Europeans know this and that they will not be making any big production runs because of it. There may be some small batches that will sell for outrageous sums of money, but i dont think we are going to see competitively priced Sigs HKs FNs and Steyrs in any significant number.
The Grand Inquisitor
Member
While I don;t ever expect to see anything from HK on the civilian market (besides shotguns and autoloading pistols) I think it is very possible that Steyr will grant my prayer and release a civilian AUG, although the probability of a sub-$7000 Sig 55x series is doubtful because Sig would have to build a US production facility and tool up to make them.
For those who don;t think they will sell, I am going on record stating that I will certainly buy an AUG (considering I've been saving up to spend $3000! on one) as well as a P90 and F2000 when the money builds up. The market is there, we Americans love to spend our money on guns - and the psycho's who post here (like myself) lead that charge.
For those who don;t think they will sell, I am going on record stating that I will certainly buy an AUG (considering I've been saving up to spend $3000! on one) as well as a P90 and F2000 when the money builds up. The market is there, we Americans love to spend our money on guns - and the psycho's who post here (like myself) lead that charge.
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