FN Herstal 20+1

[barnbwt]

I swear, never are gun-folk so cheap as when the Five-$eveN is being considered...

FWIW, mine has never jammed, is extremely fun, is easy to clean, shoots straight, is simple to understand, and fits my hand great.

The only issue I've had with the pistol was the mag-release spring, which FNH made good on, and then some.

The ammo has never failed to fire. Something I can't say about any rimfire ammunition I've ever used. That alone make this round better than a "glorfied .22WMR" in my eyes.

This thread was kind of a slow starter, for a 5.7 job, but I guess we're in the thick of it now...

whatever.

TCB

 

[Pete D.]

I like mine. I also reload for it which allows for two things...better than factory performance and less than factory costs for ammo.
The comparison a few posts earlier to the 7.62 Tokarev is worth pursuing. The Tokarev will do much of what the 5.7 is designed to do (as will the Tokarev's ballistic cousins, the .30 Mauser and the .30 Luger) they are somewhat bulkier and have fewer bullet types available to the reloader. But they work just fine.
About the saboted 55 grain bullet and the Tokarev. Yes, I wonder,though, about its accuracy....I have had little luck with sabots used in such applications.
The 5.7, though, is capable of great accuracy at fairly long ranges.
Here are five shots at 100 yards.....even with the flier, it's a four inch group.....


Yeah...a pocket rifle.

 

[FIVETWOSEVEN]

There are plenty of 9mms that carry 16-20 rounds. Personally, I would get one of those and about $500 bucks worth of ammo.

Wouldn't be as accurate, light weight or as light recoiling though. Those are it's big selling points on the civilian market.

 

[MachIVshooter]

I swear, never are gun-folk so cheap as when the Five-$eveN is being considered...

Because no one seems able to quantify the reason for this pistol costing twice what other handguns of the same pedigree and manufacturing process do.

HK is another that will invoke what you speak of, and I happen to agree, having owned them (notice, past tense). Why does an HK45 cost over a grand when a Glock 21, M&P 45, XD-45, FNP 45, etc. all go in the $500-$600 range and do everything it will (sometimes more)?

And along those lines, can you honestly tell me that the Five-seveN is that much more expensive to make than the FNP line from the same manufacturer that do sell at normal polymer handgun prices? What is the extra $400 or so paying for, aside from exclusivety?

 

[wrc]

And along those lines, can you honestly tell me that the Five-seveN is that much more expensive to make than the FNP line from the same manufacturer that do sell at normal polymer handgun prices? What is the extra $400 or so paying for, aside from exclusivety?

That's a good point. I think it is in large part the image factor, and that there aren't a whole lot of large contracts making it more cost-effective to produce. I don't see markdown sales on the FiveseveN, not like the rest of the FN polymer line (FNS and FNX). Clearly, the FNX/FNS lines are meant to compete for existing SIG/HK/Glock/S&W customers, but they seem to have little traction, which may explain the almost bargain-basement prices.

The FiveseveN may just be like a Rolex. They could price them cheaper, but they don't have any problems selling what they make, so ...

 

[MachIVshooter]

They could price them cheaper, but they don't have any problems selling what they make, so ...

Yeah, the whole "better because it costs more" than "costs more because it's better" thing, I suspect.

I do think they'd move a lot of them at $600-ish. I'd buy it at that mark.

 

[gearhead]

The FNP/FNS lines are made in the USA. The 5.7 is Belgium-made only.

 

[barnbwt]

...no one seems able to quantify the reason for this pistol costing twice what other handguns of the same pedigree and manufacturing process do.

You're absolutely right, they are very expensive for what they're made from, but original designs cost a lot more than their materials, and FNH can't count on NATO to pay for the R&D this time.

However, I do not agree the Five-seveN is cut from the same cloth as most (any?) other polymer pistol. Its lock action, magazine design, and control layout are quite different from common industry design concepts for pistols (High-Power, 1911, Glock, etc.). If the pivoting cam blowback-delay device has been used elsewhere, I would be very interested to know.

I do think they'd move a lot of them at $600-ish. I'd buy it at that mark.

Too true, but then, a lot of guns would move at 2/3 their current price. And if FNH priced their stuff like Kel-Tec, they couldn't make it fast enough to sell it at double the price (couldn't resist a jab at the KSG, RFB, Sub2000, PMR30, ...)

It is big departure from the FNX/FNP (I've not examined an FNS) lines that Herstal makes, and I think this is the reason for the bulk of its price tag. There is (or was) an entire group of ammunition and firearms design guys devoted to it and the P90, and FNH will attempt to pay that off so long as people keep buying. I believe we shouldn't chastise new designs for being costly, since competition will bring down prices on successful ideas anyway. I don't believe the Five-seveN is expensive because it is a failure, since it performs so well. I imagine FNH has restrictive licenses and patents that are preventing the Hi-Points and other developers of the world from entering the market, at least for the time being.

I only wish the gun and round could be freed from the stigma attached to them.
The Five-seveN and 5.7x28 have unjustly earned the ire of both worlds;
Ignorant people that can only percieve the potential for mis-use and lethality,
and disdain from better-informed gun-folk deafened by the cries of the former to ban a mere light pistol as a WMD.

The Five-seveN can stand on its own, if people will let it. No other pistol I know of can quite do what it accomplishes.

TCB

Off-topic; I think FNH would pull a coup by making a ridiculously low-profile single stack 5.7 "mouse" gun for the budget conscious. It would definitely have an edge over the .22WMR snubs/derringers/sub-miniature semis out there it would be competing with...

 

[mcole]

Well, i like and carry the 57. light, 20 rounds, very accurate. my difference is custom loaded cartridges. they run 2,300 to 2,350 fps at the muzzle with staked primers and 30 gr hollow point bullets designed to begin tumbling within 2" to 3" of penetration. they consistently produce a 4" wound channel.
shot into a 10lb, 14lb, and a 19lb ham (last with the bone in it). the little one was split into 2 parts. the middle one wasn't quite split into 2 parts (didn't hit it centered) but showed a 4" channel. the big one with the bone was interesting. i wanted to and did hit the bone pretty much centered. shattered the bone, blew bone fragments throughout the entire ham and the wound channel behind the bone was bigger than 4" and a hell of a mess.
the 57 was designed for "close" work and to expend and transfer its energy in very short distances after penetration. i don't use elite ammunition.
there is no relevant comparison to the .22 or .22wmr. mcole

 

[bluethunder1962]

I have always been a big cal person. My range has two 1/4 maybe thinner plates I shoot. I have shot them with everything from 9mm to 44 mag. None have put a dint in it. They have bowed them. They are all pistols but I shot them today with ar15. They went right through. My mind might be changing.