Folks who carry the 44spl seem to love it. How'd you compare it to the 45acp for SD?
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niner4tango
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I carry both. Ballistically they are about the same, aren't they? Around 350 ft-lbs of energy, 230 gr at about 850 fps. Plus or minus. There are a lot of variations in loads available in both - lighter fast bullets, slower heavy ones, but they are both pretty proven fight stoppers.
Big difference in ammo prices, though.
Big difference in ammo prices, though.
Doubting Thomas
Member
Defensive ammo choices for the .44 Special are a lot more limited. I like the cartridge but unless you need to get up to about 11-1200 fps for some reason the .45 ACP is every bit as capable and accurate. They are both good rounds in every way.
Of course, no one-hand gun is a first choice for self defense if other options are available...and there are a lot more important things in play than the exact gun/ammo flavor one chooses.
Of course, no one-hand gun is a first choice for self defense if other options are available...and there are a lot more important things in play than the exact gun/ammo flavor one chooses.
Renegade304
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I love the .44 special. I also love the .45acp. While some people seem to feel more comfortable with 3 or so thousandths of an inch of the .45's frontal area, I feel like neither can really do anything the other can't.
What I don't like about the .44 special is the only small carry friendly platforms that I know of are the newly re-released taurus snubby, and the charter bulldog (don't want to get flamed, but from what I have researched the jury is still out on whether or not either platform can stand up to 1000's of rounds for practice). I know smith made one a while back, but if my memory serves it said 180 grain max on the barrel, and I prefer heavy for caliber, so that didn't appeal to me. Sure you can put them in any of the .44 magnum revolvers, but then you are carrying more weight than necessary, thus leading to the gun staying in the car or on the night stand. (because in a defensive situation the .22 short in your pocket is more effective than the .500 magnum in the safe.)
However, with the .45acp you can have everything from superb and reasonably prices glocks,xd's, m&p's, cougars, to excellent and super expensive wilson combat.
But, if you are a revolver guy and what a comfortable snubby with good power for 2 legged predators I would say go for the .357 magnum, and just hope and pray (most likely in vein) that Ruger will bring out a sp101ish size .44 special one day.... I will be first in line.
What I don't like about the .44 special is the only small carry friendly platforms that I know of are the newly re-released taurus snubby, and the charter bulldog (don't want to get flamed, but from what I have researched the jury is still out on whether or not either platform can stand up to 1000's of rounds for practice). I know smith made one a while back, but if my memory serves it said 180 grain max on the barrel, and I prefer heavy for caliber, so that didn't appeal to me. Sure you can put them in any of the .44 magnum revolvers, but then you are carrying more weight than necessary, thus leading to the gun staying in the car or on the night stand. (because in a defensive situation the .22 short in your pocket is more effective than the .500 magnum in the safe.)
However, with the .45acp you can have everything from superb and reasonably prices glocks,xd's, m&p's, cougars, to excellent and super expensive wilson combat.
But, if you are a revolver guy and what a comfortable snubby with good power for 2 legged predators I would say go for the .357 magnum, and just hope and pray (most likely in vein) that Ruger will bring out a sp101ish size .44 special one day.... I will be first in line.
I have both 45acp and 44spl S&W 4' N frames. The only real difference in them as far as a sd gun are Full moon clips for the 45 and speed loaders for the 44. As far as reality based balistics you can get close to the same for each. Either is a good choice.
Cheers,
ts
p.s. I would love to see a quality fice shot in iether caliber available.
Cheers,
ts
p.s. I would love to see a quality fice shot in iether caliber available.
ArkieVol
Member
I'm limited to one hand shooting so autos are out. Would love to be able to shoot a 1911 but it's not to be. However, I've managed to do with the revolvers and, since I reload, so I can go light or heavy as I please.
Last week I was shooting next to a fellow who was shooting a 45acp and when we paused he asked what I was shooting. I told him it was a 44 special with 240g Hornady XTP's over some 2400. He commented that it sounded and felt just like his 45. I was just testing a carry load but normally plink with 200g lead over Bullseye or Trailboss.
Last week I was shooting next to a fellow who was shooting a 45acp and when we paused he asked what I was shooting. I told him it was a 44 special with 240g Hornady XTP's over some 2400. He commented that it sounded and felt just like his 45. I was just testing a carry load but normally plink with 200g lead over Bullseye or Trailboss.
JERRY
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i love this one...."K" frame in size, easier to shoot than a .357 mag, several top loads commercially available for this caliber. smaller than any S&W 5 shot .44spl, better built than the Charter Arms gun, and that bull barrel makes it shoot so much easier than the Taurus 445 2".
Sam1911
Moderator Emeritus
Substantively identical, if loaded right.
I bought a box of Winchester Silvertip 200 gr. JHPs to be my super self-defense load when I bought my 629 years back. They chrono'd at just a hair over 700 fps.
As a rule, I was carrying a 1911 with 9 rds. of 230 gr. Hornady TAP +Ps at 950 fps., so I was UNfavorably impressed with my expensive new defensive rounds, to say the least. I got a heavier gun, that held three fewer rounds, and each bullet was 30 gr. lighter and going 240 fps slower... not a good trade-off, IMHO.
However, .44 Spc. CAN be loaded up to a very serious round that will give you a hair more than a .45ACP generally can, if that's important to you.
I bought a box of Winchester Silvertip 200 gr. JHPs to be my super self-defense load when I bought my 629 years back. They chrono'd at just a hair over 700 fps.
As a rule, I was carrying a 1911 with 9 rds. of 230 gr. Hornady TAP +Ps at 950 fps., so I was UNfavorably impressed with my expensive new defensive rounds, to say the least. I got a heavier gun, that held three fewer rounds, and each bullet was 30 gr. lighter and going 240 fps slower... not a good trade-off, IMHO.
However, .44 Spc. CAN be loaded up to a very serious round that will give you a hair more than a .45ACP generally can, if that's important to you.
I have a 45 acp in 1911 and two 44 specials in a Rossi 720 and a Taurus 431. I carry my 44s as my ccw. They are 3 inch weapons. They are loaded with Blazer 200 Gold Dots. My ACP is loaded with 230 grain Hydra's. I would have no qualms carrying it as a ccw either. It is just a full sized weapon that tends to be to big at times.
I know that either will put the perp down if needed. If I do my job, the caliber and bullet will do theirs. The 44 has several advantages over the ACP if you choose to reload. The ACP is cheaper in factory ammo, and easier to find. The ACP also has some very wonerful self defense ammo out there. As for the 44 in self defense ammo; I believe that the Blazer 200 grain Gold Dot or the Buffalo Bore 200 grain "Anti Personnel" wadcutter is the way to go.
Both calibers have there merits, and few flies in the ointment on them. It would be nice to see the gun manufactures bring out a few QUALITY 44's in a ccw. I believe my two 44's are super guns. Reliable, accurate, dead on at 0-20 yards. You can't ask for better then that.
I know that either will put the perp down if needed. If I do my job, the caliber and bullet will do theirs. The 44 has several advantages over the ACP if you choose to reload. The ACP is cheaper in factory ammo, and easier to find. The ACP also has some very wonerful self defense ammo out there. As for the 44 in self defense ammo; I believe that the Blazer 200 grain Gold Dot or the Buffalo Bore 200 grain "Anti Personnel" wadcutter is the way to go.
Both calibers have there merits, and few flies in the ointment on them. It would be nice to see the gun manufactures bring out a few QUALITY 44's in a ccw. I believe my two 44's are super guns. Reliable, accurate, dead on at 0-20 yards. You can't ask for better then that.
David E
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For me, that's a silly comparison, platform-wise.
I suppose you could ream the chambers of the .45 acp to accept the .460 Rowland, but if I wantedore power, I'd just take a .45 Colt or .44 magnum instead.
So that leaves me to compare standard ACP ammo to the .44 Special. My first question would be, what will the Special do the ACP won't? If the ACP is loaded with a 230 grain bullet @ 950 fps and the Special has a 240 @ 950 fps, I'm going to carry the ACP in a 1911. I'll have a gun that's lighter, flatter, easier to carry/conceal that holds more rounds that's easier and faster to reload.
The revolver needs to do something for me that the 1911 won't. Bump those loads up to 1050-1100fps, then I'd go with the Special.
If you insist I choose between an ACP and Special revolver, I'd choose the Ruger 4 5/8ths" .44 Special (if I had one) over my heavier five inch 625, even tho moonclips allow for a faster reload.
Ok, I just re-read the OP. I'm still in "Trail Gun" mode from another thread!
For strictly defensive purposes, I'd go with the .45 ACP.
ironhead7544
Member
For self defense the 45 ACP can be reloaded faster so I would go that way.
For all around, if you handload, the 44 Special is better. I like Elmer's load for a trail gun in the N frame.
For all around, if you handload, the 44 Special is better. I like Elmer's load for a trail gun in the N frame.
Tallinar
Member
The .44 special commercial self-defense ammunition out there really seems pretty anemic compared to the cartridge's actual basic potential. I attribute this to the fact that it seems more .44 specials on the market these days are going to be lightweight 5-shooters, and perhaps manufacturers are catering to the fact that stouter (standard) .44 special loads in these guns tend to be uncomfortable to the users. Who knows.
I carry .44 special exclusively, and I carry handloads. Currently using a 240gr LSWC loaded to about 800-825 fps - which essentially mirrors the traditional .45 ACP 230gr FMJ at 850 fps.
For defensive loadings, I'd say the two cartridges are the same animal. But to get the .44 special there, you either have to be comfortable carrying handloads or buy Buffalo Bore stuff, it seems. For some, that may be a good argument in favor of just using .45 ACP.
I carry .44 special exclusively, and I carry handloads. Currently using a 240gr LSWC loaded to about 800-825 fps - which essentially mirrors the traditional .45 ACP 230gr FMJ at 850 fps.
For defensive loadings, I'd say the two cartridges are the same animal. But to get the .44 special there, you either have to be comfortable carrying handloads or buy Buffalo Bore stuff, it seems. For some, that may be a good argument in favor of just using .45 ACP.
JERRY
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Georgia Arms has a 200gr. GD @ 850 fps, so does CCI. Hornady has a 180gr. XTP @ 1,000 fps, and of course federal and remington have the old stand by, 200gr. LSWC HP@ 850 fps. but Winchester's STHP is whoafully inadequate for much more than paper punching.
now if you have to go with gucci ammo, BB, CB, and others have some right stout loads.
now if you have to go with gucci ammo, BB, CB, and others have some right stout loads.
BlindJustice
Member
The .45 ACP Revolver platform is more versatile than a .44 SPeccial
.45 ACP uses moon clips for faster reloads
It can also chamber the >45 Auto Rim and the lesser known .45 Super
Buffalo Bore offerings
Heavy .44 Special
180 gr. JHP @ 1,150 FPS / 543 ft lbs
255 gr. SWC @ 1,000 FPS / 566 ft Lbs
190 gr Spft Cast HP GC @ 1,150 FPS / n/a ft lbs
.45 ACP +P
185 gr. JHP @ 1,150 FPS / 543 ft lbs
200 Gr. JHP @ 1,050 FPS / 490 ft Lbs
230 gr. FMJ FN @ 950 FPS / 461 ft Lbs
255 gr. HC FN @ 925 FPS / 484 ft lbs
.45 Auto Rim Standard Pressure
200 Gr. JHP @ 1,000 FPS / 444 ft Lbs
225 gr. Wadcutter @ 950 FPS / n/a ft Lbs
255 gr. HC FN @ 850 FPS / 409 ft lbs
.45 Auto Rim +P
200 Gr. JHP @ 1,200 FPS / 629 ft Lbs
225 gr. Wadcutter @ 1,125 FPS / n//a ft Lbs
255 gr. HC FN @ 1,000 FPS / 566 ft lbs
.45 Supe ( any readers thinking wow, do your research it's > +P r
185 g. JHP @ 1,300 FPS / 684 ft Lbs
230 gr. FMJ FP @ 1,100 FPS / 618 ft lbs
230 gr. JHP @ 1,100 FPS / 618 ft lbs - Out of Stock
255 gr. HC FN @ 1,075 FPS / 654 ft lbs
Heck the standard pressure .45 AR seem more than adequate
Randall
.45 ACP uses moon clips for faster reloads
It can also chamber the >45 Auto Rim and the lesser known .45 Super
Buffalo Bore offerings
Heavy .44 Special
180 gr. JHP @ 1,150 FPS / 543 ft lbs
255 gr. SWC @ 1,000 FPS / 566 ft Lbs
190 gr Spft Cast HP GC @ 1,150 FPS / n/a ft lbs
.45 ACP +P
185 gr. JHP @ 1,150 FPS / 543 ft lbs
200 Gr. JHP @ 1,050 FPS / 490 ft Lbs
230 gr. FMJ FN @ 950 FPS / 461 ft Lbs
255 gr. HC FN @ 925 FPS / 484 ft lbs
.45 Auto Rim Standard Pressure
200 Gr. JHP @ 1,000 FPS / 444 ft Lbs
225 gr. Wadcutter @ 950 FPS / n/a ft Lbs
255 gr. HC FN @ 850 FPS / 409 ft lbs
.45 Auto Rim +P
200 Gr. JHP @ 1,200 FPS / 629 ft Lbs
225 gr. Wadcutter @ 1,125 FPS / n//a ft Lbs
255 gr. HC FN @ 1,000 FPS / 566 ft lbs
.45 Supe ( any readers thinking wow, do your research it's > +P r
185 g. JHP @ 1,300 FPS / 684 ft Lbs
230 gr. FMJ FP @ 1,100 FPS / 618 ft lbs
230 gr. JHP @ 1,100 FPS / 618 ft lbs - Out of Stock
255 gr. HC FN @ 1,075 FPS / 654 ft lbs
Heck the standard pressure .45 AR seem more than adequate
Randall
.44 Special has always been loaded pitifully weakly by ammo manufacturers. Why, exactly, I'm not certain. I've been told that they were afraid of lawsuits from people shooting them in "weak" revolvers. Well, until recently, the only guns that were chambered in .44 Special were the N Frame S&W, the Colt SAA, and that pitiful weak and rickety Colt New Service.
Come on, pump that sucker up to about 950 fps or so and you'd have something just about perfect. Still hardly a "high pressure" load compared to most everything else. Not exactly Magnum level, but better than the anemic pop gun loads that are standard.
I believe the classic Skeeter Skelton load was 7.5 grains of Unique with a 245 gr. SWC (don't take that as gospel, but I believe it is correct, or pretty close) which is supposed to give a 950-some odd fps velocity.
Come on, pump that sucker up to about 950 fps or so and you'd have something just about perfect. Still hardly a "high pressure" load compared to most everything else. Not exactly Magnum level, but better than the anemic pop gun loads that are standard.
I believe the classic Skeeter Skelton load was 7.5 grains of Unique with a 245 gr. SWC (don't take that as gospel, but I believe it is correct, or pretty close) which is supposed to give a 950-some odd fps velocity.
BlindJustice
Member
Another manufacturer who offers
.44 Special, .45 ACP & .45 Auto Rim
Lot more offerings in ACP/AR
Reeds Ammunition & Research
.44 Special
180 gr. HP @ 1,000 FPS
200 gr. Hardcast FP Cowboy Action Load @
210 gr. HP @ 950 FPS
225 gr. "Manstopper"
240 gr. @ 850 FPS
240 gr. Lead SWC
.45 ACP
+P 185 gr. HP Gold @ 1,150 FPS 545 ft lbs
185 gr. HP Gold @ 1,100 FPS 497 ft lbs
230 gr. FMJ Match RN @ 850 fps
230 gr. HP Gold @ 942 fps 453 ft lbs
230 gr. RN TMJ @ 940 fps
.45 Auto Rim
the following loads are only recommended for MOdern revolvers
and touted as excellent for Medium game
225 gr Barnes XPB ( all copper HP )
250 gr. Barnes XPB
250 gr. Nosler SP
I've got 50 rounds of the 225 gr. Barnes XPB
& have yet to chrono it, but it is the stoutest recoil
ammo I've shot in my 625
Other 45 Auto Rim
230 gr.JHP Gold @ 942 FPs
260 Skorpion FP @ 900 FPS
260 gr. Woodshed FP @ 900 FPS
260 gr. Manstopper
.44 Special, .45 ACP & .45 Auto Rim
Lot more offerings in ACP/AR
Reeds Ammunition & Research
.44 Special
180 gr. HP @ 1,000 FPS
200 gr. Hardcast FP Cowboy Action Load @
210 gr. HP @ 950 FPS
225 gr. "Manstopper"
240 gr. @ 850 FPS
240 gr. Lead SWC
.45 ACP
+P 185 gr. HP Gold @ 1,150 FPS 545 ft lbs
185 gr. HP Gold @ 1,100 FPS 497 ft lbs
230 gr. FMJ Match RN @ 850 fps
230 gr. HP Gold @ 942 fps 453 ft lbs
230 gr. RN TMJ @ 940 fps
.45 Auto Rim
the following loads are only recommended for MOdern revolvers
and touted as excellent for Medium game
225 gr Barnes XPB ( all copper HP )
250 gr. Barnes XPB
250 gr. Nosler SP
I've got 50 rounds of the 225 gr. Barnes XPB
& have yet to chrono it, but it is the stoutest recoil
ammo I've shot in my 625
Other 45 Auto Rim
230 gr.JHP Gold @ 942 FPs
260 Skorpion FP @ 900 FPS
260 gr. Woodshed FP @ 900 FPS
260 gr. Manstopper
BlindJustice
Member
Stophel
Ruger has offerred the Blackhawk or Bisley? one of their strong Single Actions chambered in .44 Special.
S&W built a 5 shot DA L-Frame in .44 SPecial model 696?
R-
Ruger has offerred the Blackhawk or Bisley? one of their strong Single Actions chambered in .44 Special.
S&W built a 5 shot DA L-Frame in .44 SPecial model 696?
R-
CSA 357
Member
the 44 spec can be handloaded to be a pretty hot round easly out preforming the 45 acp and 357 magnum, most factory rounds are pretty weak due to all the old guns in this cal out there, i carry the 44 spec and 45 acp and dont feel under gunned with eather both very good carry rounds!
Gordon
Member
I'll take the .45acp in Ranger Bonded 230 grain +p , if you have to use a revolver then the moon clips are great ! Think the .44spl is a great defensive option in really light revolvers like the 296 and CA Bulldog, but in heavier guns the .44mag FAR outshines it in all ways except controllability which leaves the slightly better .45acp- again!
BlindJustice,
In my mind, the Blackhawk is "recent" My point still the same, being, these are all big, strong guns (with the exception of the Charter Arms Bulldog). There was never any need to make the cartridge so wimpy. Yes, Elmer Keith blew up some N frames and New Services, but he was experimenting, and often loaded them to ridiculous pressures.
I have some Buffalo Bore "heavy" .44 special SWC's, which I have not shot yet. I think just recently they began to offer this with a SWC HP, which I think, would be the perfect Self Defense handgun cartridge.
In my mind, the Blackhawk is "recent"
My point still the same, being, these are all big, strong guns (with the exception of the Charter Arms Bulldog). There was never any need to make the cartridge so wimpy. Yes, Elmer Keith blew up some N frames and New Services, but he was experimenting, and often loaded them to ridiculous pressures.I have some Buffalo Bore "heavy" .44 special SWC's, which I have not shot yet. I think just recently they began to offer this with a SWC HP, which I think, would be the perfect Self Defense handgun cartridge.
BlindJustice
Member
FYI/FWIW - I carry a full size 1911 I shoot it as well as the 625 regularly, Id love to have a S&W Model 24 in .44 Special 4"' Mountain gun
bbut a big N-frame carry would be probematic.... perhaps a shoulder rig
where it would be carried in the vertical / muzzle down.
I have a freind of mine in Reno, he's got a S&W MModel 696 3" Bbl. in .44 Special whichI'd love to talk him out of. ah wel.
R-
bbut a big N-frame carry would be probematic.... perhaps a shoulder rig
where it would be carried in the vertical / muzzle down.
I have a freind of mine in Reno, he's got a S&W MModel 696 3" Bbl. in .44 Special whichI'd love to talk him out of. ah wel.
R-
Sam1911
Moderator Emeritus
I carry the 4" 629 fairly regularly. It sure isn't hard to conceal in an IWB rig. I've no use for shoulder holsters.
But, in order to go to the effort, and loss of capacity, and bulkiness of reloads/speedloaders, etc, I want to be packing something MORE potent than my usual .45ACPs, not drastically less -- and really, not "about even," either.
So, if I carry "Specials" usually they are some 1250 fps. 200 gr. XTP loads I like. Not really a "Special" any more, but I like them.
But, in order to go to the effort, and loss of capacity, and bulkiness of reloads/speedloaders, etc, I want to be packing something MORE potent than my usual .45ACPs, not drastically less -- and really, not "about even," either.
So, if I carry "Specials" usually they are some 1250 fps. 200 gr. XTP loads I like. Not really a "Special" any more, but I like them.
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