Follow me on this one..

[mljdeckard]

I very much echo what Frank and others have said. Sure, it can work. No, you can't say that a .22 isn't lethal, because it is. And yes, if it was all I had I would use it. (And if I had the choice, it would be my 1911 conversion using a 15 rd mag loaded with Velocitors. I would dump as many center of mass as fast as I possibly could.)

Center fire defensive cartridges will in most cases cause much more tissue damage and penetrate deeper. No matter what you can do with a .22, you can do better with something else. When you are fighting for your life, you don't want an option that is the bare minimum. The last thing to enter your mind as you pull the trigger is; "I REALLY wish this was something besides a .22."

Watch this clip, the guy behind the tree gets hit multiple times by the attacker. It doesn't SAY it is a .22, but if you notice, the gun has very little recoil, I can't imagine it's a .38.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=H9zy37-_0LU

It's your keister, man. Do what you want. But if you asked me if a Pinto hatchback is a good family car, I would say no. If you asked if old parachutes that have lots of patches on them are ok to use, I would say no. If you came across some some old, expired fire extinguishers, and thought it was a good idea to throw one in your trunk, I would say no. This is your life.

 

[dastardly-D]

22 cal

With everything being said about stopping power and penetration, has anything been said about the overall '' hurt capacity '' put on somebody with 4 to 8 shots of 22 entering somebody's body ? I'm not trying to make fun here but, I believe just about any old coot that just shot somebody with 4 to 8 shots of 22 now has the upper hand on an NFL football player. You just may be able to kick his ass, or outrun him, or get behind a locked door . Right ? That to me sounds like protection ......or preventative thuggery at least .

 

[mljdeckard]

No matter how much it is from a .22, it would be exponentially more from a larger bullet.

 

[Frank Ettin]

...has anything been said about the overall '' hurt capacity ''...

What is "hurt capacity"? Something you made up?

I'll stick with the sources I cited in post 17.

 

[GEM]

Using specific rounds to blind someone permanently as a nonlethal response isn't a plan. You have done something grievous to a person in a situation you have decided is not that serious.

 

[Warp]

With everything being said about stopping power and penetration, has anything been said about the overall '' hurt capacity '' put on somebody with 4 to 8 shots of 22 entering somebody's body ? I'm not trying to make fun here but, I believe just about any old coot that just shot somebody with 4 to 8 shots of 22 now has the upper hand on an NFL football player. You just may be able to kick his ass, or outrun him, or get behind a locked door . Right ? That to me sounds like protection ......or preventative thuggery at least .

They might not even be aware they have been shot, and they might be able to kill or at least maim you with their bare hands.

 

[dastardly-D]

22's

Yes, hurt capacity is something I made up. Easy enough for anybody to understand though, right ? A larger bullet does the job better, there's no argument there, that has been proven over and over. I'm saying a bunch of small injuries ( hurt) to your body makes you weaker even if you don't realize it . If you are injured you are weaker, it doesn't matter what you think ! A 22 to the groin, knuckles, elbow, face, neck, forearm, bicep, lungs .......any of those areas and more make you easier to be conquered or slower to fight or run. That's all I'm saying, dealing out injuries is better than being injured . If you think a handful of small caliber bullets in your body only pisses you off, you are one really tough hombre ? I carry heavier loads myself, but some people may have an infirmity limiting them to smaller weapons .

 

[RetiredUSNChief]

Yes, hurt capacity is something I made up. Easy enough for anybody to understand though, right ? A larger bullet does the job better, there's no argument there, that has been proven over and over. I'm saying a bunch of small injuries ( hurt) to your body makes you weaker even if you don't realize it . If you are injured you are weaker, it doesn't matter what you think ! A 22 to the groin, knuckles, elbow, face, neck, forearm, bicep, lungs .......any of those areas and more make you easier to be conquered or slower to fight or run. That's all I'm saying, dealing out injuries is better than being injured . If you think a handful of small caliber bullets in your body only pisses you off, you are one really tough hombre ? I carry heavier loads myself, but some people may have an infirmity limiting them to smaller weapons .

OK, let's go with "hurt capacity":

"I'm saying a bunch of small injuries ( hurt) to your body makes you weaker even if you don't realize it."

Funny thing about this statement...I don't want my attacker to NOT realize he has been hurt. Not knowing one is hurt does little to detract an attacker from hurting ME.

And another funny thing about hurting someone: the "anger factor". Slap a violent person attacking you and likely all you're going to end up doing is angering them, and thus make them even more violent. If I fear for my life, the LAST thing I'm going to do is give them a proverbial slap in the face. I darn sure am not going to deliberately work to get a huge adrenaline rise out of him over minor injuries he may or may not actually feel.

And any hunter can tell you what value "hurt factor" has with game when it comes to ending the hunt. All it does is prolong the issue. Most certainly no hunter would recommend levying a bunch of "hurt factor" on dangerous predator species. That's a recipe for disaster right there.


Violent human attackers who endanger the health and life of other people are predators of the worse kind. I have no intention of deliberately centering my personal planned self defense tactics around the .22LR. Yeah, as I said before, any port in a storm: I'll not turn it down if that's what I have at hand. But I won't make plans centered around the .22LR for defense.

 

[Warp]

Yes, hurt capacity is something I made up. Easy enough for anybody to understand though, right ? A larger bullet does the job better, there's no argument there, that has been proven over and over. I'm saying a bunch of small injuries ( hurt) to your body makes you weaker even if you don't realize it . If you are injured you are weaker, it doesn't matter what you think ! A 22 to the groin, knuckles, elbow, face, neck, forearm, bicep, lungs .......any of those areas and more make you easier to be conquered or slower to fight or run. That's all I'm saying, dealing out injuries is better than being injured . If you think a handful of small caliber bullets in your body only pisses you off, you are one really tough hombre ? I carry heavier loads myself, but some people may have an infirmity limiting them to smaller weapons .

What you are basically saying is that getting shot with a .22lr is worse than not getting shot at all. Nobody will disagree with that.

Getting shot with a BB gun is also worse than not getting shot at all.

It is entirely possible that a handful of rounds from a .22lr will completely and totally fail to stop an attacker in a timely manner, which is to say, it is entirely possible that .22lr will fail to do the job of self defense/home defense.

There are almost always better choices.

 

[HexHead]

5) Large magazine capacity and ease of follow up shots

I might consider it with a revolver. The ammo is inherently too unreliable to use in a semi-auto where seconds may count on saving your life. Especially when there are better options anyway.

 

[MachIVshooter]

IMO, the ONLY acceptable reason to use a .22 for defensive purposes (especially HD, with no weapon size constraints) is because one is physically unable to effectively wield a more effective firearm. While a .25 auto is actually a better choice than .22 rimfire from a reliability and bullet construction standpoint, what would make a .22 pistol the better choice is that .22 pistols come full size or nearly full size platforms that make recoil practically nonexistant.

Case in point, as my grandmother became older and progressively weaker, I replaced her Llama IIIa .380 with a .22 revolver. She simply did not have the hand strength to manipulate the slide or handle the recoil of a more powerful cartridge.

So yes, for someone who is very weak/frail, the .22 may be a good choice, possibly the only one that is feasible. For someone who only has a .22, they should obviously use it. For anyone else, it shouldn't be a first pick.

 

[herrwalther]

Using specific rounds to blind someone permanently as a nonlethal response isn't a plan. You have done something grievous to a person in a situation you have decided is not that serious.

Not sure where you got this one. As it doesn't really go with my original post which started the thread.

In regards to my wife, who would be the user of this theoretical .22LR HD weapon, she has arthritis in her hands. I would never suggest a .22LR be used as a primary means of protection, but as a backup or weapon for a novice/weaker shooter, it is an option.

Reliability is certainly a concern with rimfire. This may be the excuse to just get a firearm in .25ACP.

 

[Al Thompson]

This may be the excuse to just get a firearm in .25ACP.

I think the centerfire .25 is more reliable that .22s, solely based on the cartridge. I'm seeing more and more folks having to deal with hand (and eye) issues as our general population ages.

One revolver we carry (Ruger LCR in .22M) was brought in for this very reason - lack of recoil.

 

[herrwalther]

I think the centerfire .25 is more reliable that .22s, solely based on the cartridge. I'm seeing more and more folks having to deal with hand (and eye) issues as our general population ages.

I agree. The question about .22LR as home defense came up partially because of availability since we already have a .22LR rifle.

 

[DNS]

I disagree.

I've shot many thousands of rounds of 22lr through my revolvers in the last twenty plus years with only ONE failure. Semi auto firearm/ammo tolerances are to blame, not the ammo. I've actually shot struck or bent rounds in my wheelies that my shooting friends semi's had choked on.

Due to physical limitations my daily carry is .22 LCR.

 

[jimbo555]

Herrwalther, have your wife try a k-frame s&w loaded with wadcutters. My wife has the same issues and she shoots a ruger lcr22lr best but she is getting better with the 38. I believe that 99% of the time a 22 will work fine in a defensive situation. That rare time you get a serious individual high on something your going to need shot placement more than caliber. All handgun calibers can fail with poor shot placement. The ruger lcr takes away the reliability complaint. Just pull the trigger if a misfire occurs.

 

[herrwalther]

I've shot many thousands of rounds of 22lr through my revolvers in the last twenty plus years with only ONE failure. Semi auto firearm/ammo tolerances are to blame, not the ammo. I've actually shot struck or bent rounds in my wheelies that my shooting friends semi's had choked on.

I have had very few failures with .22LR and even when using semi-autos. Even in semi-auto it is easy to eject a bad round to keep shooting. Bx-25 magazine on a 10/22 allows some room for ammo related failure and still have capacity. The most .22 ammo I have used thus far is usually something from CCI such as Maxi-Mag. That would likely be my ammo choice if I go this route.

 

[Warp]

Even in semi-auto it is easy to eject a bad round to keep shooting.

In a life or death situation when you are using it defensively? I'm not so sure.

 

[Nom de Forum]

If you are using the .22LR cartridge for home defense this may be the best delivery system. Good luck if it jams.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American-180

 

[dastardly-D]

mouse guns

So many of you downgrading little bullets ! Sure , some people don't know they're hit the first time, that also happens with larger caliber bullets. Some people fall down the first time with a 22 to the arm. Look at the stats about how many people are killed every year with a mouse gun? I knew a Marine, a fairly little guy take 6 hits in the torso with a Chinese MG. He went down, but managed to crawl to safety . An unusual statistic for sure ! Same as the guy who stops a load of 9mm's, or 38's . An unusual statistic . The person who started this thread asked about whether a 22 will do the job . It will ! Look up the statistics, do it yourself so there's no doubt ? If a 22 is all you have( please don't compare it to a bb gun) then you stand a good chance. A larger caliber, if you can handle it will always be a better choice. I am positive that if I hit Mike Tyson a bunch of 22's from the groin to chin, my old self could whoop his ass , or yours ! No, that's not a challenge ..............

 

[Warp]

Look at the stats about how many people are killed every year with a mouse gun?

It isn't about killing or death, it is about stopping the threat as quickly as possible.

What stats are you referring to? Can you link them please?

The person who started this thread asked about whether a 22 will do the job . It will !

It might. Or it might not.

Look up the statistics

Can you cite them please?

A larger caliber, if you can handle it will always be a better choice.

Now you're talking.

 

[Frank Ettin]

So many of you downgrading little bullets...

Yes, I am. And I explain why in post 17.

...The person who started this thread asked about whether a 22 will do the job...

And in post 17 I explained why it is less likely to do the job than heavier cartridges.

 

[USAF_Vet]

While a larger caliber is preferable in a lethal force situation, if the person physically cannot manipulate a larger caliber, then all they have at hand is an awkwardly shaped club.

Given the physical limitations of the OPs wife, the .22lr might well be the best option.
However, as I considered the OPs question, I found myself leaning into a rifle rather than a handgun. Three points of contact are better than one, or possibly two.

I gave a great deal of consideration to the Smith & Wesson M&P 15-22. Lightweight, virtually no recoil, very little muzzle flash, noise level that would be tolerable in a home defense scenario, and 25+ rounds on tap. Manual of arms is simple enough, too.

But if we're going with a long gun for home defense, a .22 just might not cut it, even with 25 rounds. Not sure of the OPs living situation, type of neighborhood, enemies with Mexican drug cartels, etc. but if you can go larger, it may be best to do so. For instance, a modern semi-auto shotgun, 20 gauge or even .410 would deliver more mass downrange into an attacker, especially when you may have only enough time for one shot, two at most. A double blast of #3 buck from a Remington 1100 20 gauge would be, typically, enough to make all but the most determined to change their course of action. Probably be enough in most cases to eliminate the decision making process altogether. Given that the OPs wife, with her physical limitations, won't be going room to room clearing the house, barrel length probably won't be an issue. A full 28"+ bird barrel would reduce muzzle flash, noise and recoil. Not that a 20 gauge has a considerable amount of any of the three.

If this is more of a CCW option, well, I'd avoid the mini revolvers. My wife, who does not have arthritis in her hands, finds them difficult enough to operate under no stress.
A good .22 revolver is OK, but there are .32 caliber options better suited in a wheel gun.

In any case, while there are usually better options than a .22, there are a lot more options that are much, much worse.

 

[herrwalther]

In a life or death situation when you are using it defensively? I'm not so sure.

Wife and I are both veterans. She has the added edge of being in several self-defense shootings, that would show in the "It happened to me" section of the NRA news.

I gave a great deal of consideration to the Smith & Wesson M&P 15-22. Lightweight, virtually no recoil, very little muzzle flash, noise level that would be tolerable in a home defense scenario, and 25+ rounds on tap. Manual of arms is simple enough, too.

The current "right now" option for a firearm for her is a Ruger 10/22 which was got me thinking about the topic, very similar to the 15-22. A shotgun is an option and was considered, just have to work it in to the budget. Whether I go .22LR rifle or shotgun, a light will be a must, which I already have the hardware to do.

 

[Inebriated]

OP, let me ask, what exactly is limiting your wife?

Arthritis, strength issues, training interest, etc?