Follow up to the open carry incident in Greensboro, NC
- Thread starter Cel
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+1.
The LEO saw the gun and pretty much lost it. The LEO didn't know how to correctly handle this situation and was embarrassed for it. GPD was not going to let one of their own deal with such humiliation without retaliation. Hence, the trumped up charges and what I deem to be flat out lies against Mr. Penn.
DeepSouth
Random Guy
No that would be a stupid statement, one that I didn't even imply thank you.
I'm simply saying LEO's are trained to deal with criminals, so if you walk up to one with an open gun (for no reason mind you) expect some questions to be asked, in a 'harsh' and biased manner. Not saying it is right, just saying it is going to happen, and you shouldn't put yourself in that situation if you don't want the fight.
May I answer a question with a question.....Is it "good idea" to approach a LEO, who has been called to a scene (VIA complaint,) with a camera in your hand and a loaded gun on your side, for no reason that he can see?
To more directly answer the question as it applies to this situtation.... At a public demonstration.......YES
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And I highlighted the main difference.
The fact is he knowingly went into a situation knowing his actions could cause trouble for him. Then his actions DID cause trouble for him, now he wants out of the trouble.
It wouldn't bother me if both suffered some kind of consequences for POOR JUDGEMENT.
highorder
Member
The guy in question posted here in the original thread.
Page 3, post 82.
I'm guiessing we won't be hearing from him here.
Page 3, post 82.
I'm guiessing we won't be hearing from him here.
DeepSouth
Random Guy
You are correct, I probably should've/could've phrased that better. I will only add we shouldn't be defending someones poor judgement just because he didn't break a law, as neither person in this case did so far as I can tell.
Neverwinter
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Turning the protests around an abortion clinic into gun-free zones isn't going to make the criminals stop assaulting people there. It's just as pointless as all of the other gun-free zones.
He absolutely made a poor judgement call. He absolutely did something stupid. He absolutely deserves a good kick up the ass or slap upside the head.
That being said, it is not yet illegal to be stupid, and the cop is absolutely getting back at this guy for making the cop (who also acted stupidly) look bad. They have no legal right to do this.
That being said, it is not yet illegal to be stupid, and the cop is absolutely getting back at this guy for making the cop (who also acted stupidly) look bad. They have no legal right to do this.
Maybe if we didn't live in a point in time in this country where even the cops equate a gun with a bad guy (except themselves), we wouldn't have had this problem. He wasn't out there with his gun in his hand threatening anyone. Regardless if you think he was wrong or not, we have let it get to the point where the thought process is that a gun is either on a criminal or a police officer and it just shouldn't be that way.
We need to stop letting the antis define the parameters of what is a RIGHT. Otherwise it's a privilege. "How dare an ORDINARY citizen carry around a gun!!! The nerve!!"
Once again, this is retaliation.
We need to stop letting the antis define the parameters of what is a RIGHT. Otherwise it's a privilege. "How dare an ORDINARY citizen carry around a gun!!! The nerve!!"
Once again, this is retaliation.
Double Naught Spy
Sus Venator
Watched the video, read the article. The part I don't get the is the resisting arrest part. The other things I can see happening as a part of due course and will likely be nullified in due course, but what caused the resisting arrest charge?
Fire department = government as well. Federal, state, and local highway workers = government. Garbage collectors = government.
I like cops, firemen, highway workers, and garbage collectors just fine, except those that are jerks...but there are jerks in any field. Heck, there are some on gun boards.
Fire department = government as well. Federal, state, and local highway workers = government. Garbage collectors = government.
I like cops, firemen, highway workers, and garbage collectors just fine, except those that are jerks...but there are jerks in any field. Heck, there are some on gun boards.
Deltaboy1984
Member
I hope some pro gun rights lawyer will defend Mr Penn for free just so the PD can get kicked to the curb in court. Nothing worse than a little man with a badge and a gun.
Double Naught Spy
Sus Venator
Well since "government" includes any civil servants anywhere ranging from city, county, parish, state, territory, and federal employees, I can't think of a larger organization. Of course, it isn't just one organization, is it? It is composed of 1000s of organizations and millions of people. Saying they are all corrupt is straight out bigotry.
We have gone from one cop who acted like an idiot to the whole of all government being corrupt. I simply don't have enough foil to wear on my head to deal with this.
We have gone from one cop who acted like an idiot to the whole of all government being corrupt. I simply don't have enough foil to wear on my head to deal with this.
I'm sorry, but that simply isn't true. Carrying a pistol in a holster and going about your business won't violate that non-written law.
I took a concealed carry course with the instructor for the North Carolina State Police and he informed the class that you have to be doing something really egregious to get arrested on a charge like that. I took the class in 2005 and he stated the last time someone had been arrested for "going armed to the terror of the people" was about 10 years prior. The case involved people armed with shotguns, riding around in a pickup truck, and wearing Ku Klux Klan outfits.
Yeah, yeah, Penn sure displayed real bad judgment. The cop too displayed bad judgment, but having said that, you can have your rights but remember your behavior and all will be considered too if this goes to court, and trust me it wont play well for him. It sure does look like he has to spend thousands of $$$ with lawyers. I will state one fact though, we might think he is a hero, but they got him really bad with the failure to child-proof. In almost all cases, gun cases involving children in any way almost always get you maximum penalty in court, not many judges or juries tolerate or even look lightly on that, even if its a marginal and foggy if he did or did not. In fact he better get himself a damn good lawyer, and this is going to cost him a lot money. He asked for it. Go looking for trouble and you will find it. DO-NOT taunt the po-lice! You will almost always come out on the loosing end.I'm not sure why they charged him with resisting an officer. It seemed to me it was a consensual meeting. The cop never detained Penn.
The statute states,
"14‑277.2. Weapons at parades, etc., prohibited.
(a) It shall be unlawful for any person participating in, affiliated with, or present as a spectator at any parade, funeral procession, picket line, or demonstration upon any private health care facility or upon any public place owned or under the control of the State or any of its political subdivisions to willfully or intentionally possess or have immediate access to any dangerous weapon. Violation of this subsection shall be a Class 1 misdemeanor. It shall be presumed that any rifle or gun carried on a rack in a pickup truck at a holiday parade or in a funeral procession does not violate the terms of this act."
This map clearly shows they were not on medical facility property nor public property.
As for the cop searching his home, they probably told a judge the FBI was investigating him. They probably also needed to get his phone, computer, or guns. This way they can put him in a bad light. For example, "He had 1000 rounds of ammo and an assault rifle, no one has that unless they are planning an attack on an abortion clinic." Not only that, but he had a map of the area and according to the FBI he was a vilent demonstrator. Most people do not think that cops or public officials go after people in this way, but they do all of the time. Remember the Lacrosse players from Duke a couple of years ago?
People in NC have been charged with GATTOP (going armed to the terror of the public). People have been arrested for open carry. There is another black man (danbus) on open carry that has won money because he was harrassed by cops on several occasions for open carry.
I think having the camera actually helps Penn protect himself from bogus arrest. It shows his stupidity obviously, but I'd wager if that camera was not there, they'd have hulled his ass to jail on some trumped up charges, and may have been able to make a resisting arrest charge stick. Its always a he said/ she said thing with public vs LEO, but don't forget who most people are likely to believe. The deck is already stacked against the public. I wish Penn luck, but I have a bad feeling about this. I say he spends a lot of $$$ on this or some charge will stick either way he looses. I am sure the cops have this video too so he really has no secret weapon on his side in this. Just saying.
As for danbus, if I were him, I'd be careful. He's gonna windup getting his ass shot. Don't throw stones at a beehive, they might not comeout sting you, but then your luck will eventually run-out. I think this is just about the best example of how not to behave. This is America, they have the right to behave as they wish, it just doesn't make it smart. Someone referenced the cop reached for his gun, he is human, and they risk getting shot at all the time, think about that. If I were him, I hate to inform you I would too approach the belligerent guy making sure my weapon was within a split second reach of my hand. Just commonsense. No-one will butt an eye at the cop. They will get him on something.
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Tacbandit
Member
Yeh...it's trumped up, but the guy didn't help his own cause...He helped to escalate the situation....Still, they're carrying this way overboard...He's gonna have to cough up cash..big cash!
gc70
Member
I hope the guy understood on the front end how costly it can be to prove a point - and he obviously set out to prove a point.
It is clearly against NC law to be armed at an abortion clinic demonstration. Walking up to a cop possibly talking to some of the demonstrators seems like taking a big chance of stepping over the line of the law. But that is even okay if a person intends to test the law.
If a person wants to test a law, their actions should be carefully considered (presumably) and having a record (the cellphone video) is a good idea. But when a person challenges the police, it is only sensible to be squeaky clean in all respects other than regarding the law being challenged. Having an unsecured firearm in the house with a child was a silly loose end that should not have been allowed.
It is clearly against NC law to be armed at an abortion clinic demonstration. Walking up to a cop possibly talking to some of the demonstrators seems like taking a big chance of stepping over the line of the law. But that is even okay if a person intends to test the law.
If a person wants to test a law, their actions should be carefully considered (presumably) and having a record (the cellphone video) is a good idea. But when a person challenges the police, it is only sensible to be squeaky clean in all respects other than regarding the law being challenged. Having an unsecured firearm in the house with a child was a silly loose end that should not have been allowed.
Crazy Carl
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Also, despite the constant "private property" yammering, that "private property" is largely a parking lot, aka. a Public Vehicular Area & the only access to the clinic.
Bottom line, dude screwed up by packing at that demonstration. When he tried to get cute with the police, he ended up with more trouble than he bargained for.
It's just not that hard to not be a putz, but this guy apparently struggles with it.
Bottom line, dude screwed up by packing at that demonstration. When he tried to get cute with the police, he ended up with more trouble than he bargained for.
It's just not that hard to not be a putz, but this guy apparently struggles with it.
gc70 said:
The law says "upon medical facility property" or "upon public property". He was upon neither.
gc70 said:
It sounds like the open carrier was at home when the search occured. I have unsecured weapons at my home when I am home. Weapons locked in a safe are no good when needed. The kid wasn't at home alone with loaded unsecure weapons. The weapons weren't in his childs crib or the childs room. The charge is ridiculous.
1. Demonstration? Exactlly who said there was a demonstration going on?
oooooooooo the LEO well I'm sure he wouldn't lie about that!!!
All I saw in the video were 5 people ( 2 with bibles ) standing around.
Didn't see any picket signs.
2. I don't see an 8 month old child shooting a gun PPPPPPPPPlease!!!
3. They waited 2 1/2 WEEKS to charge him & search his home.
Sounds like to me the utube video gave them a black eye & they just wanted revenge.
Just my 2 cents
oooooooooo the LEO well I'm sure he wouldn't lie about that!!!
All I saw in the video were 5 people ( 2 with bibles ) standing around.
Didn't see any picket signs.
2. I don't see an 8 month old child shooting a gun PPPPPPPPPlease!!!
3. They waited 2 1/2 WEEKS to charge him & search his home.
Sounds like to me the utube video gave them a black eye & they just wanted revenge.
Just my 2 cents
altitude_19
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WHO turns themselves in for questioning??!! I know everybody likes to tell their story and clear their name, but there are times it's best just let the dog lie. I'm sure I'll get flamed for this, but people, don't talk to cops. Unless you're reporting a crime that you were A: Uninvolved with and a witness to or B: The victim of...DON'T TALK TO COPS. The less a LEO knows about you, the less likely it is that he'll see an infraction of the law and cite you for it (i.e. DO HIS JOB!!!). YES, you're allowed to say hello at the diner. :banghead:
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