Food for thought regarding your CCW choice

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I have had this scenario happen to me on several occasions while in LE. Many times the responding officers did not know me and I usually was in plain clothes working at night. Even if I was holding a firearm on someone once the cavarly arrived I immediately went into a compliant position obeying every command. I am puzzeled why most feel this is a concern. Usually once the cops arrive the issue is over. If you have someone in containment have them on the ground face down hands on their head fingers interlocked and legs crossed. This should allow you time to put your weapon down while explaining your position. If you are in a gun battle find cover or lay down. Cops tend to shoot at whoever is shooting in these situations. Keep in mind most of these guys just took a rollercoaster ride getting there. They are full of adrenalin and tend to respond very aggressivley. Common sense will prevail here, no matter what you are carrying you will be a suspect until proven different.
Jim
 
There are a lot of Glock Fo-Tahs out there NOT in the hands of officers or CHL holders too.

A gun in the hand is a gun in the hand. I don't think any officer responding to a "shots fired" or "man with a gun" call is going to be any more at ease because it's a Glock in your hand rather than a Sig.
 
What if ...

The cops responding & arriving to a shots-fired/man-with-a-gun call think they see:

Someone holding a "gun" in a threatening manner, only to later discover it's a cellphone, pack of cigarettes, tape cassette, cassette recorder, video camera, screwdriver, beer can/bottle/glass, flashlight, etc., etc.

Someone holding & displaying an "assault weapon/machine pistol" in a threatening manner.

Someone holding some sort of unidentifiable firearm in a threatening manner.

Someone holding a suspected firearm in a threatening manner, who doesn't respond to verbal commands to drop the weapon (pick a reason ... some combination of sheer fear, distraction, injury, tunnel vision on a perceived threat, auditory exclusion, etc., etc.), and who appears to be threatening another person with it while disobeying the shouted verbal commands of the arriving cops.

Someone holding & displaying a firearm, but can't see the L/E badge in the person's pocket ... or the CCW license ... let alone the immediate reason the firearm was presented, and perhaps used, in the first place ...

Someone holding a suspected firearm, and then at the same time think they hear a gunshot(s).

Someone holding what appears to be a pistol make/model with which they're familiar, only to later discover that it was a replica, airgun, etc., etc., and the person holding it had been actively engaged in some "realistic" role playing-strategy gaming, horseplay, etc., etc., and which wasn't immediately apparent to the responding cops.

You just don't know ...

I remember the time I was the first unit on the scene of a reported jewelry store armed robbery. I learned that the R/P Victim hadn't waited for us to arrive, but had grabbed his own handgun and run out of the store, chasing the suspect, who was also armed with a handgun. Both were Hispanic males of similar description, dressed in similar non-distinctive clothing (forgot the clothing details these many years later), and apparently were both last seen running down the street, with guns in their hands, in a neighborhood of predominantly Hispanic residences and businesses. You can bet I quickly got on the radio to warn the other responding units of the potentially confusing similarity of the pair of excited, armed fellows they might discover running down one of the other streets.

I wouldn't presume to offer other folks advice who I'm not responsible for training ... seek it out from trainers, instructors and sources you trust ... but you can bet that one of the things that's always on my mind when I'm working plainclothes inside the jurisdictions of other L/E agencies on a daily basis, as well as when I'm off-duty on my own time, is that as far as other cops are probably going to be concerned (if something occurs which makes me feel compelled to present my weapon) I'm potentially just another "man-with-a-gun" until they've otherwise identified me after they arrive on the scene.

I've gone out of my way, when talking to dispatchers on my cellphone and/or radio, to belabor my detailed description and status when requesting the response of both units from my agency (lots of new folks whom I don't immediately recognize under non-stressful conditions, and vice versa) and other L/E agencies when requesting assistance.

I remember one instance, when I was wearing more "casual" plainclothes for a detail, and one of the responding officers from another agency kept commenting that I just didn't look like a cop, which is why I had my partner meet them at the door, since he was dressed in more conventional, more "formal" plainclothes. The fact that I was wearing a badge on a chain around my neck, with an issued ID card inside the badge holder, didn't seem to reassure that officer much for some reason ...

I also agree with the comments that some cops are unable to identify their own issued weapons, and sometimes have trouble recognizing such differences as semiauto/revolvers, stainless/blued/black finishes, etc. ... and that's under ideal, well-lit, non-stressful conditions, too.

The decision of which concealable handgun to lawfully carry, as a legally armed civilian/citizen/member of the public/non-LE (whatever floats your boat), unless restricted by local law or license restriction, is probably a personal one ... and best determined by the affected individual, making an informed decision after the appropriate research relating to his/her preferences, anticipated needs, restrictions, skills and experience, etc., etc.
 
A gun in the hand is a gun.

As many folks have said "A gun in the hand is a gun" or "in the dark all cats are black" - If you're not in uniform and part of the call and you've got a visible weapon you're gonna be asked to lay down - if you're in plain clothes or non-LEO and not a bad guy - expect it. To suggest that time will be spent determining if you're holding a S&W 4506 or a Glock 32 would be like suggesting that time will be spent determing if it's a Glock 31 or a Glock 32 - "it ain't gonna happen" - use common sense - you can't expect it of everyone else.
 
I think there is a flaw in the logic that a cop will shoot or not shoot you based on the type of pistol in your hand. Yea, a Lorcean 380 maybe would set off the "gangster" alarm, but not a Sig. Too many other factors involved. While Glock is standard issue for most cops in this area, they seem to have a long list of other guns they can carry both on and off duty. I see Sigs, S&W, Baretta, and lots of 1911s all the time. I would think however that using the same gun as the local law is issued would be benificial for your defense in court. Same idea as using the same type of ammo issued to local cops for your personal defense gun.:)
 
CAS700850 said:
I had just finished qualifying with my Sig 239 when the instructor, who I respect, asked if he could see, then shoot, the Sig. No problmes. He shot it, brought it back, and commented that it was a nice little gun.

"Don't carry it, though." he said, surprising me. When I asked if something was wrong with the gun, he said no. he then went on to explain that all but one agency in the county we work in carries a Glock as a duty weapon, including bailiff's, probation, uniforms, and plainclothes.

I agree with others, this guy get a kickback from Glock or something? I swear, Glock has become like a quasi-religion for True Believers or something, sometimes...

And I also agree...carry what you like, what you're used to, and what you are COMFORTABLE carrying. I would never CCW a "Block" just because they're too chunky, I find them distinctly uncomfortable when worn concealed (I'd tried friends') and I'd be more likely to leave it behind with a lot of outfits.
 
Oldtimer said:
HMM! I had to delve into my "bag of memories", having spent 31 years in law enforcement. While the GUN does, in fact, immediately attract the attention of police officers, there's many other facets that enter the total picture.

There was another post about the "sixth sense". Well, the average "street cop" tends to obtain a "street sense" after a few years. It consists of (A) the "look" of people that they see, (B) body language, and (C) the overall view of the people and the surroundings.

For example, I responded to a "robbery alarm" at a nearby liquor store. As I approached, a man was running from the store with a "snubbie" revolver in hand. Something was "wrong" with the picture, for the man didn't APPEAR to be a "bad guy", in my opinion! Still, I had to take cover and order him to drop the weapon. He did, and it turned out that he was the OWNER of the liquor store! (A "wino" had grabbed a bottle of wine and had run from the store, so it hadn't been a "robbery", just a simple theft, worth about $2.99). It was the APPEARANCE of that liquor store owner, plus his body language that seemed to off-set the probability of him being a "bad guy".

There have been numerous "suicide-by-cop" incidents and many of them have consisted of "replica" guns being held by the suicidal persons. Body language and verbage usually enters the picture....and, what can you do when a suicidal person is yelling, "Kill me!" while holding what appears to be a REAL gun?

A lot of press has been on the recent "Air Marshall" shooting of a deranged person yelling that he had a bomb. His verbage, plus his body language (reaching into a bag) caused his demise.

Sorry, but I can't correlate the GUN having to "look like" one that the local police agencies are carrying to YOUR personal safety! The "verbage" aspect, if you're involved in a shooting, will probably save you! Add to that, your "body language" AND your willingness to fully comply with the demands of an officer are necessary. Hey, start yelling something like, "I have a CCW permit, and it's in my pocket! If you can guard ME, as I put my gun down, don't take your eyes off of the bad guy! Just don't shoot ME, for I will comply with all of your demands!"

I've been retired for 4 years, but I know what I would say if I was involved in a shooting....and it would have NOTHING to do with the GUN that the on-duty officers see. I'd identify myself as a police officer, and utilize "command presence" in my voice.....but I'd also utilize non-threatening (to the officers) body language, and additional verbage, if necessary. Hopefully, those police officers will have that "street sense" instilled within them!


"I" "agree" "with" "you" "totally" "."
 
WT - the statistic is that 70% (or so) of police departments authorize or issue the Glock either exclusively or as one authorized weapon, not that 70% of police officers carry one. There's a lot of difference between those two numbers.
 
Since the subject of the reported number of L/E agencies issuing or approving Glocks has arisen, I'll throw out a bit of interesting trivia reagrding another odd statistic I learned from one of the firearms manuacturers ...

Of the L/E agencies in our country, approx 60% of them employ 10 or fewer armed badge wearers ... ;)

You can spin statistics to say many things, and then confuse and distract everyone else from almost whatever subject you wish ... :confused:
 
Wow

Actually witnessed a live felony stop today 3 undercover officers with drawn weapons. Ya know come to think of it I really dont have a freaking clue what kind of weapons they had Glock? Beretta? Sig? Colt? Kimber? I have seen and shot a whole bunch of handguns and think I could identify them as well as the other guy I was more concerned about just trying to stay the heck out of the way and more importantly out of the line of fire.

Dont think it would be much different for LEO rolling into a shooting scene they would be more concerned about.

1. Officer Safety
2. Securing the scene
3. locating witnesses

I think the last thing on his mind is what kind of hand gun the supposed good guy had. All people at the scene would be considered bad guys SEE Rule number 1 until Rule number 2 was met.

Personaly if and I hope the hell it never happens I am involved in a shooting as a CCW holder after I was safe would try and holster my weapon. If LEO's responds was instant (not going to happen lets face it) I would simply put my gun down on the deck and step on it.
 
torpid said:
I can't seem to recall any gagsta rap waxing poetic about the Sig 239.

As for the Glock...

.

Guess what gun the "gangsta" types always look at at my local guns store?
 
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