In service calibers, it's not a predictor of incapacitation, therefore, not very useful in determining what bullet to carry. A much better choice is to carry ammunition that meets FBI protocol testing.
Foot-Pound Energy: what is it?
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45_auto
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My Suburban rolling down the driveway at 2 MPH has about the same amount of energy as an M193 , and about 600 times as much momentum for more conversation sake.
As a sidenote, the AA batteries in my TV remote each have about 6 times the energy of an M193 or my Suburban rolling down the driveway at 2 MPH, but zero momentum.
As a sidenote, the AA batteries in my TV remote each have about 6 times the energy of an M193 or my Suburban rolling down the driveway at 2 MPH, but zero momentum.
how can a battery have KINETIC energy?
They may have a bit of stored energy. The only way that a battery has kinetic energy is if you put some of them in a sock and swing it around your head. or if you used a sling shot, et al, to impart some fairly good velocity to the battery.
They may have a bit of stored energy. The only way that a battery has kinetic energy is if you put some of them in a sock and swing it around your head.
or if you used a sling shot, et al, to impart some fairly good velocity to the battery.Those who have shot feral dogs and coyotes with good 223 softpoints and 357 revolvers can tell you which load sometimes lets them run off with chest hits (especially with swc's) and which one downs them decisively and they can't get up again. If you can get enough velocity and if the bullet gets the needed depth of penetration, energy/velocity trumps momentum/diameter. The 17 Remington is 25 grs at 4100 fps, which is the exact same momentum/recoil as 100 grs at 1025 fps. Which is what 9x18 Makarov ball delivers. Guess which load, used at 20 ft of distance, nails coyotes to the ground, and which one barely suffices for a cottontail?
So the issue is, really, "at what point on the velocity scale does energy mean more than diameter/momentum? Jeff Cooper said this occurs at 2200 fps, and my field test results agree with that. Yes, adequately penetrating bullets can be driven to such speeds (and contoled adequately) in ccw pistols. Just because a bullet is very lw for its diameter does not mean that it can't penetrate just fine. Make a 50 gr 9mm bullet out of solid brass, for instance, and it can be driven to 2200 fps with safety, especially with 5" barreled polygonal rifling, like the Glocks'. Make it a truncated cone and it will penetrate like an icepick. So then the issue becomes, "how do we get this penetrator to offer adequate shock effect and tissue damage?" That can be done, too. But the result is something that ammo makers wont offer, due to a side effect that is not hazardous to the gun or the shooter.
So the issue is, really, "at what point on the velocity scale does energy mean more than diameter/momentum? Jeff Cooper said this occurs at 2200 fps, and my field test results agree with that. Yes, adequately penetrating bullets can be driven to such speeds (and contoled adequately) in ccw pistols. Just because a bullet is very lw for its diameter does not mean that it can't penetrate just fine. Make a 50 gr 9mm bullet out of solid brass, for instance, and it can be driven to 2200 fps with safety, especially with 5" barreled polygonal rifling, like the Glocks'. Make it a truncated cone and it will penetrate like an icepick.
So then the issue becomes, "how do we get this penetrator to offer adequate shock effect and tissue damage?" That can be done, too. But the result is something that ammo makers wont offer, due to a side effect that is not hazardous to the gun or the shooter.
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5Wire
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Maybe not so much with handguns but velocity, bullet weight,are important factors in knowing where the bullet is going to hit compared to point of aim.
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RetiredUSNChief
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Jim Watson
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That is an interesting calculation.
If you had a man-portable laser weapon, it would spit out exhausted batteries like a firearm ejects empty cartridges.
If you had a man-portable laser weapon, it would spit out exhausted batteries like a firearm ejects empty cartridges.
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I looked up the dimensions of the AA battery. If you were to buy yourself a .58 caliber black powder rifle...
Oh yeah, that's what I need to do...
I wonder, do they make hollow point batteries?
RetiredUSNChief
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Well...if you take the anode current collector out...
(That's the rod that runs down the center of the battery.)
I sense that you are a kindred spirit when it comes to getting into this kind of 'trouble'. Probably not a bad thing that we are not neighbors; I think that we'd have a hard time not walking out of a gun shop with all sorts of diabolical plans.
RetiredUSNChief
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I sense that you are a kindred spirit when it comes to getting into this kind of 'trouble'. Probably not a bad thing that we are not neighbors; I think that we'd have a hard time not walking out of a gun shop with all sorts of diabolical plans.
Trouble? I started at a young age. I blew up the 55 gallon barrel we used to burn trash in when I was 5 years old. And that was with gun powder I made in the garage and packed into a Coke can, which I tossed into the fire in the trash barrel. Apparently gun powder is so easy to make that a 5 year old can do it by watching an older brother do it and then later copycatting him.
I hear Dad was somewhat less than pleased about that...blew ashes 50 feet into the air and split the barrel down the side at the seam, according to all my older brothers. None of which I remember to this day, which one of my brothers said he could understand because he wouldn't remember anything either if Dad beat his *** as bad as he beat mine.
Some people say I never really grew out of that kind of stuff.
JohnBT
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"That's my point."
That may have been what you meant, but it's not what you said.
""but the EFFECTS of either of those items traveling at speed will be quite different because of the nature of the materials involved.""
It's not due to the nature. It's due to the density. Which can change.
That may have been what you meant, but it's not what you said.
""but the EFFECTS of either of those items traveling at speed will be quite different because of the nature of the materials involved.""
It's not due to the nature. It's due to the density. Which can change.
481
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Yep, probably fortunate that we've never met; probably a bad combination. Your dad would have probably had cause to ...*ahem*... "adjust my attitude", too -not that I didn't do stuff that gave mine ample opportunities to make such 'corrections'.
Gun powder at 5, huh? Not too shabby. "Junior Chemist" of the year, right?
Gun powder at 5, huh? Not too shabby. "Junior Chemist" of the year, right?
RetiredUSNChief
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Ummm..."nature", as in "the inherent character or basic constitution of a person or thing"
Density is part of the "nature" of things. So are hardness, cross-sectional area, and volume, to name a few others.
What you said is very much part of my point. You simply referred to one specific aspect (density)...I spoke in general terms. There are several inherent differences between these two materials other than density which are relevant to the issue.
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