For the LEO's - how many rounds do you shoot for practice a year?

[jlbraun]

I'm interested because I've seen people claiming that "most LEO's only fire 50 rounds to qualify each year" (which frankly sounds condescending) to others that say "tens of thousands of rounds a year". For this purpose, LEO means FBI, local PD, sheriff, SWAT, MP's, etc.

So, in your duty sidearm (pistol), how many rounds for practice do you fire a year on average? Does your department pay for it? Do you shoot more ammo than your department will buy? Less?

To clarify, I'm simply honestly interested. No one should draw any conclusions from this poll about LEO's in general (completely unscientific and all that), and I know there are some superlative pistol shots that simply don't need to practice that often.

 

[Werewolf]

For this purpose, LEO means FBI, local PD, sheriff, SWAT, MP's, etc.

That invalidates the poll as the marksmanship qualification requirements for each group you mentioned are very different. The most obvious would be the rounds fired by SWAT compared to run of the mil patrolman.

Statistically you are trying to sample seperate populations but treat them as if they are all the same population. That's a really big no-no.

 

[cambeul41]

By posting such a poll on this site

you have automatically biased he sample.

 

[isp2605]

Do you want just thru our duty gun, dept training amount? That's the way I answered. If you're looking for how many rds a yr for all guns that answer goes way up.

 

[Pilgrim]

My department required range every two months and the deputies would fire a minimum of 50 rounds through their pistol. At least once a year they would fire twenty rounds through the Mini-14 and ten rounds of 12 gauge.

The SWAT guys shot considerably more.

Pilgrim

 

[jlbraun]

That invalidates the poll as the marksmanship qualification requirements for each group you mentioned are very different. The most obvious would be the rounds fired by SWAT compared to run of the mil patrolman.

I don't know if it does invalidate it. I know that the requirements are different, but I was just interested. This would be similar to asking "How many miles do you drive in a year?" There would be people whose answer would be zero, as they don't own a car, and there would be those who answer in the 120000+ range as professional truck drivers. Again, I'm not trying to do a study here.

Consider the question this way. "In order to pass your qualification requirements for your duty station, whatever it is, (and also meet your own personal definition of "competence") you shoot X number of rounds per year through your duty gun to practice. How many do you shoot?"

Do you want just thru our duty gun, dept training amount? That's the way I answered. If you're looking for how many rds a yr for all guns that answer goes way up.

Just through the duty gun (or guns).

 

[Sam]

It invalidates it because any LEO on this board is going to shoot more than the minimum requirement.
You need to ask what their department's qualification consists of and how often.

Sam

 

[Zen21Tao]

It invalidates it because any LEO on this board is going to shoot more than the minimum requirement.

Exactly, you can't have a "random sample" when your only criterion for the sample is the blanket request for an unverifiable self-report. Aside from having no way to verify the accuracy of the reports given you are automatically excluding those that don't belong to this forum or that didn't read your thread. At best you can only generalize your findings to the LEOs that belong to this site.

I would also agree that just being a member of this board makes a LEO more of a gun enthusiest than the average LEO and as such would spend more time shooting and training than the average LEO.

 

[jlbraun]

It invalidates it because any LEO on this board is going to shoot more than the minimum requirement.
You need to ask what their department's qualification consists of and how often.

Sam

I didn't ask what the minimum requirement is. I just asked how many rounds do you as an LEO fire through your duty weapon in order to meet or maintain your own standard of competence as well as your department's. "Train like you fight, fight like you train", and such. It would be interesting to know what the qualification standards are for different departments, but I that's not what I'm asking.

I realize that this is a self-selected sample, and I'm not using it to do anything scientific. So the thrice-clarified version of the question is, "Of the LEO's on this board, how many rounds do you fire through your duty weapon in the course of practicing and keeping yourself to a standard of performance, whatever that is - your own or your department's?"

 

[30-06 lover]

My brother is an LEO and just today made his SWAT team. He shoots once a day, and in that once a day, a minimum of 30 rounds, but he is the Range Master for his department. From my experience as a non-sworn, and from what my brother has told me, most cops shoot about a magazine or two once or twice a month. There are those who shoot a minimum of once a day to once a week, those who shoot enough to be acceptable, and those who only shoot to qualify. When the poop hits the fan, it is funny how many time people scream over the radio the name or ID number of the officer(s) that shoot once a week.
-Mike

 

[jcoiii]

At my qualification a couple of weeks ago, we shot about 300 rounds. Only 50 counted for qualification, but we shot a lot more than that. I personally shoot at least once a month (as budget allows) and usually 100+ rounds.

But others in this thread are correct in stating that it's a good bet that any LEOs on this board shoot more than just the minimum. I do know some officers who do only shoot during range day.

 

[Tom Servo]

I think the others are right in that you'll get a disporportionate sample from this board. There are LEOs who are gun people (which are the ones who would join this board), and they likely shoot just as much as the rest of us.

Then there are the ones who "don't like" guns, or who don't think they need more than the minimum proficiency. Those guys are unlikely to join this board, and therefore they wouldn't contribute to the poll.

Then again, I know a few guys who were crack shots in their earlier years and just shoot once every few rounds to make sure they're still in shape. These guys might shoot the "minimums," but could still be excellent shooters.

 

[jlbraun]

But others in this thread are correct in stating that it's a good bet that any LEOs on this board shoot more than just the minimum. I do know some officers who do only shoot during range day.

That's why I said "how many rounds do you fire through your duty weapon in the course of practicing and keeping yourself to a standard of performance, whatever that is - your own or your department's?"

This allows that LEO's here may shoot more than the bare minimum required. In fact, I was expecting that. Again, I am not trying to generalize to all LEO's from this poll.

 

[Zen21Tao]

I'm interested because I've seen people claiming that "most LEO's only fire 50 rounds to qualify each year" (which frankly sounds condescending) to others that say "tens of thousands of rounds a year". For this purpose, LEO means FBI, local PD, sheriff, SWAT, MP's, etc.

What most are pointing out is that while your pole may be helpful to you it won't be statistically meaningful, reliable or generalizable.

You mention two groups you want to differentiate between, those that fire 50 rounds per year and those that fire tens of thousands of rounds. However, your sampling is biased in that it is skewed towards the later group, that participation in the poll isn't ramdomly assigned, and it lacks verifiability. Any non-LEO can vote in this poll is if they were a LEO and there is no way to tell whether those that do vote are imbelishing their numbers or not. At best you have an unreliable polling skewed in favor of those that are more likely to shoot many rounds.

You can say that you are only using this polling for your own puproses not for "scientific" use but the fact remains that any opinion you draw based on this poll is being establised on a flawed and biased foundation.

 

[STAGE 2]

Geez. Who cares if its flawed. The guy asked a simple question. Its been clearly brought to his attention that this wont be statistically accurate so let it die already and answer the guy's question.