For those who say, "If you just obey the suspects commands, you'll be fine...."

[Aim1]

Some people believe that as long as you obey the perpetrators commands you'll be fine. Not sure how that works for rapists, though. Usually anti-self-defense people say, "Just obey the suspects commands and you'll be fine." when it comes to armed robberies and armed burglaries.


This has especially been said when a CCW kills a perpetrator and the the family of the perp or anti-gunners say, "No one needed to be killed. He/she, wasn't going to kill anyone. They were only going to rob/burglarize them, so that doesn't justify them being killed."


Well, watch a few episodes of "The First 48" and you'll see how many robberies/burlaries end up going wrong and the victim ends up dead. I honestly believe that a lot of them don't intend to kill anyone, but that's just what happens when you're waving a loaded gun at someone with your finger on the trigger.



Here's a case where the victim complied and got shot anyway. So much for complying.





http://globalnews.ca/news/2354038/watch-good-samaritans-life-saved-after-would-be-muggers-gun-jams/

WATCH: Good Samaritan’s life saved after would-be mugger’s gun jams

By Elton Hobson November 20, 2015 8:36 pm

Police in New Orleans have released surveillance camera footage showing the moment a Good Samaritan’s life was spared thanks to an incredible turn of fate. For a few tense moments, the intervener pleads with the would-be mugger with his hands up, but to no avail: the man opens fire on the Good Samaritan, striking him in the abdomen.

“The victim explained to the suspect, repeatedly, that he did not have any cash,” New Orleans Police told the Times-Picayune.

“The suspect became enraged and shot the victim once in the stomach and attempted to shoot him a second time, but the gun jammed.”

 

[grogetr]

There was one in St. Louis a while back. A man and woman got robbed after a ball game walking to their car. They gave the guy their money and phones and were running away when the guy shot the man in the back. He is now paralyzed. These kind of people just don't care

 

[Carl N. Brown]

"Usually anti-self-defense people say, "Just obey the suspects commands and you'll be fine." "

Two friends of my brother, a man and woman I met once at a backyard 4th of July picnic, were executed at a roadside lookout by a carjacker. I believe they had only $11; I was told they were on the way to a band practice and stopped to admire the fall foliage. That was part of my incentive to get a handgun carry permit (in addition to other reasons).

I know there are those who might say that I could have set aside the $75 training cost and the $115 permit fee to have $190 to appease a robber, but I have no guarantee that would be enough to appease the kind of robbers known to drive folks to an ATM to withdraw funds and shoot them anyway.

Personally I think the antigun types tend to be pro-big government, true believers in an absolute state that derives its hegemony from a monopoly on force, and they identify with the robbers more than they identify with the victims. Citizens willing to stand their ground to protect themselves are a threat to their preferred political order. If you refuse to submit to force, you are an enemy of the state.

 

[vaupet]

In dutch there is the word roofmoord (one word) wich means robbery with murder.

The fact alone such a word exists, nuff said

Police discover a murder and find the motive to be robbery. In a country were people are educated to rely on the government for their personal protection and are always told to go along.

 

[Tirod]

The emphasis is to get people to be subject to the anti gunners sense of a higher authority and how social dynamics works in their perspective.

The first issue is what do they consider a set of moral guidelines and who proposed them?
Secondly, that people are somehow intrinsically good.

The combined perspective largely leaves out any concept of evil and is therefore about half of the total view of what humans are capable of.

If you can't see the evil, then it may be due to not understanding the human condition. Fatal flaw.

The Constitution reflects on citizens as being capable of making a fully informed decision - after all, the nation was formed and largely populated by immigrants escaping religious intolerance imposed on them by others. That's why we read so much about citizens being 1)Free and 2) Independent. Live under oppression and it tends to make you resistant to having an objectionable philosophy imposed on you. Especially when the ruling class says you don't have any rights to protect your family or defend it, and that they can force you into their military to serve their needs.

In that light, the anti gunners are doing exactly the same thing as the kings and potentates we left. They are telling you to conform to their sense of how to act - and when you don't they take it as a personal insult against their world view. They are intolerant and unaccepting of you acting as a Free and Independent citizen. They want you disarmed and in servitude, to force you to obey their collective mandate.

If you can competently resist an armed thug endangering your family and life, you are too dangerous for the kind of world they want to form, where no one can resist the mandates of their appointed rulers and the armed thugs they use to force people to their will.

For example, ISIS. It's not the difference in philosophy we are discussing here, it's that the disarmament believers and those who practice extremeism in religious view use the same tactics - they talk about resistance as if it's evil, disarm their opponents by force, and then abuse and disparage those who continue to oppose them.

Like Great Britain and Australia are having better times now that disarmament is working there?

"Don't resist the thugs!" is just conditioning people to "Don't resist US when we take over."

You will hear that message repeatedly by some Presidential candidates as they speak over the next year. Take it as you will.

Oppose it every way you can.

 

[GBExpat]

... but I have no guarantee that would be enough to appease ...

My specific reason for getting my very first in a long series of permits was a robbery I suffered in early 1975.

The experience brought home one very stark fact; those guys took total control of my life and could have easily just killed me to eliminate the witness.

It's one thing to consider it intellectually and another thing entirely to experience it.

Never again.

 

[Derry 1946]

As a New Orleanian, I am horrified to see how the perpetrator tried again and again to execute with a head shot the Good Samaritan Tulane medical student who was already gut shot and down on the ground. Godspeed his recovery

 

[Deanimator]

9/11 pretty much put a stake through the heart of "just go along and you'll be ok". The rape and slaughter of the doctor's family in Connecticut only reinforced the lesson.

No plan I have ever had, have now or will ever have involves trusting in the common sense, good judgment or basic human decency of violent felons.

 

[Deanimator]

Secondly, that people are somehow intrinsically good.

Anybody who believes that swill should read the book "Death Lands".

 

[herrwalther]

I have worked for many companies that follow the appeasement style when it comes for demands. In high school I worked for several gas stations. The "training" for dealing with an armed robbery is just do whatever they ask. Yes, because when someone sticks a gun or knife in your face, they have no thought in their mind to kill or hurt you. They just want that 20 in the register. Makes perfect sense. Then why would they need a weapon, just ask for it.

A sane train of logical thought has a hard time believing that load of bull cookies.

 

[Deaf Smith]

I always assume the worst and hope for the best.

Assume they are going to kill, and hope all my shots connect.

Deaf

 

[txblackout]

"Usually anti-self-defense people say, "Just obey the suspects commands and you'll be fine." "

Two friends of my brother, a man and woman I met once at a backyard 4th of July picnic, were executed at a roadside lookout by a carjacker. I believe they had only $11; I was told they were on the way to a band practice and stopped to admire the fall foliage. That was part of my incentive to get a handgun carry permit (in addition to other reasons).

I know there are those who might say that I could have set aside the $75 training cost and the $115 permit fee to have $190 to appease a robber, but I have no guarantee that would be enough to appease the kind of robbers known to drive folks to an ATM to withdraw funds and shoot them anyway.

Personally I think the antigun types tend to be pro-big government, true believers in an absolute state that derives its hegemony from a monopoly on force, and they identify with the robbers more than they identify with the victims. Citizens willing to stand their ground to protect themselves are a threat to their preferred political order. If you refuse to submit to force, you are an enemy of the state.

The irony is that they are the same people that are mad at the police for killing people.

 

[Phaedrus/69]

I am 100% in favor of CCW and firearms for defense, from crooks and crooked politicians. But I am really saddened by the prevailing attitude on gun forums towards those that don't believe in all the same things you do. Why do we assume everyone that agrees with us is good and moral but everyone who doesn't is immoral or has bad intentions? I can disagree with anti-gunners while still recognizing that they have the same basic moral codes as I do; they're naive, not evil. Big difference. True, they have a different view of the relationship between the individual and the society at large, and many of them feel that keeping public order and ensuring public safety is a job for governments not individuals. That is certainly something to disagree with but it's not intrinsically evil. It's just not in line with your opinions and worldviews.

Aristotle said, "It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it." I wish more people in America we educated. Perhaps we could talk to each other instead of just past each other.

 

[psyopspec]

Here's a case where the victim complied and got shot anyway. So much for complying.

He definitely got shot. However, I don't think interrupting a kidnapping falls under the description of compliance.

 

[chipcom]

I've always had a problem with authority...so why would I obey the commands of some creep anymore than I obey the commands of anyone else? My life is in the hands of God...if it's my time to die, it's my time to die...I'm not going to let fear of death influence my thinking.

 

[JDoe]

If you do not resist because they promised that you would not be harmed, you are betting your life on the honestly of a criminal.

 

[C0untZer0]

I worked with a guy who was carjacked at drive-through in Chicago. He was told to get out of the car, he opened his car door and started to get out of the car and the thug shot him anyway. My co-worker was paralyzed from the waist down and the car jacker pulled him the rest of the way out of the car, tossed him aside and drove off with the car.