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Forbes: Why 3D-Printed Untraceable Guns Could Be Good For America

Discussion in 'Activism' started by psh, May 7, 2013.

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  1. psh

    psh Member

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    THR readers might enjoy my latest in Forbes:
    "Why 3D-Printed Untraceable Guns Could Be Good For America"

    In particular, I argue that:

    "Wilson’s innovation could thus spark a much-needed re-examination of American gun laws, including the current paradigm of imposing ever-increasing restrictions on millions of honest gun owners in an attempt to stop relatively fewer bad guys from committing gun crimes. By making it harder (if not nearly impossible) for the government to regulate gun possession and transfers, his development could move the government to instead (properly) focus its efforts on punishing gun misuse."
     
  2. armoredman

    armoredman Member

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    It is something that will make a lot of people stand up and notice. I like it.
     
  3. MagnumDweeb

    MagnumDweeb Member

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    An idea that technology is politics, and politics can mean technology. We need to stand behind this I'm glad I made the fifty buck donation to def dist.
     
  4. joecil

    joecil Member

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    I also noticed this morning some of our elected congressional members have started to push for a ban saying they can get through a metal detector with out showing up. Now I don't worry about that as the ammo can't unless someone came up with a lethal plastic bullet because without the ammo all one has is a club at best.
     
  5. Texan Scott

    Texan Scott Member

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    I think it unlikely that antis will reevaluate their whole "blame the tool" paradigm.

    Much more likely that we'll see an increased effort to restrict access to ammunition and reloading components.
     
  6. dab102999

    dab102999 Member

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    ....
     
    Last edited: May 9, 2013
  7. ngnrd

    ngnrd Member

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    Of that, I have no doubt.
     
  8. clutch

    clutch Member

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    Since I have a lathe and a bridgeport out in the garage, I'm wondering what all the fuss is about?

    I want to see some good DIY metal working plans for making handguns. Legally.
     
    Last edited: May 11, 2013
  9. PaisteMage

    PaisteMage Member

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  10. Onward Allusion

    Onward Allusion Member

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    I seriously don't know what the hype is. I mean you can pick up a die and bend your own AK receiver, get a jig and drill it, get a parts kit and volia... Sure, you gotta stick to the ATF regs...file paperwork...etc

    Of course, if I were criminal, I would just pick one up from my friendly neighborhood thug-gun dealer. Much quicker that way. ;)
     
  11. MasterSergeantA

    MasterSergeantA Member

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    If you build your own, there is no paperwork to be filed. You can put a serial number on it, but you aren't required to.
     
  12. Diamondback6

    Diamondback6 Member

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    Clutch, check out the Home Gunsmith forum--there's a whole industry for unfinished 1911 receivers at anywhere from 0% raw casting/forging up to 80% (one major machining operation away from a full receiver).
     
  13. Jim K

    Jim K Member

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    I note posters using expressions like "legally" and "stick to the ATF regs". What makes anyone think the crooks are going to worry? Or for that matter that the antis won't make those guns and distribute them to criminals to "prove" the need for more anti-gun laws?

    Jim
     
  14. RPRNY

    RPRNY Member

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    Again, this conversation is mired in facts and details. What difference does it make? Gun owner discrimination advocates are pitching this as kids hitting "print" and a "Glock 5000 with five 30 round clips" pops out so they can go shoot up their school. They neither know anything about the subject nor do they care, but for using it as a platform to promote destruction of the Second Amendment.
     
  15. Onward Allusion

    Onward Allusion Member

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    I didn't realize that until AFTER I posted. I'm kinda surprised that it doesn't even need a serial number. Oh well, I'm too lazy to go through the trouble of getting the AK 80% receiver and doing the rest of the work. Heck, I hardly even shoot 7.62x39 anymore these days so it won't be worth it for me, but it's good to know.
     
  16. JVaughn

    JVaughn Member

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    Anyone who contributes to the obsolescence of gun laws is a hero in my book.
     
  17. Beentown

    Beentown Member

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    I like it because it moves the discussion to the fringe. Makes everything else seem less worrisome to the zombies. Overton like...
     
  18. x_wrench

    x_wrench Member

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    i personally do not care about being able to "print" a firearm. i am perfectly happy buying good, solid metal guns, with some wood or plastic furniture attached. what i DO care about is what our lame, uninformed government decides it wants to do about this. our government has a LONG history of punishing the masses for what the few do, or think about doing. i have never been able to understand this concept. with the possibility that it makes them billions of dollars in fine revenues. so many of the laws on the books need to be re-examined, re-written, or discarded it would keep congress busy for decades. but they are happy to blindly continue to erode our freedoms at a staggering pace.
     
  19. hso

    hso Moderator Staff Member

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    I've moved the ATF legal questions to the Legal forum since those discussions aren't about the 2A activism question.

    We've always been able to build our own firearms for our own use just like people have been able to build their own vehicles and airplanes and boats, but that fact was little known to even the firearms community and almost completely unknown to those outside of it. The fact that 3D printing has now been used as a form of activism against the Antis is what's new (yes, I know there have been some 80% builders that approached it from that angle as well, but there's a lot more effort in getting the last 20% to the finished firearm).

    The idea is supposed to change the entire paradigm so that there's no point to Antis making laws (not that this ever stopped them). Want to disarm the public? You can't if the public can use information on the internet to "print" a receiver and attach the parts to compete a firearm.
     
  20. Dave Markowitz

    Dave Markowitz Member

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    Nice piece, psh. It is very good to see this on a mainstream, non-gun related news site like Forbes.
     
  21. TRX

    TRX Member

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    > I'm kinda surprised that it doesn't even need a serial number.

    I'm fairly sure the primary purpose of the serial number requirement was to ensure that the Federal excise tax on firearms was paid by the manufacturer.
     
  22. Willie Sutton

    Willie Sutton Member

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    ^^ What he said.

    Until 1984, every bottle of distilled liquor sold in the USA had a serial number on the strip across the top of the bottle. The BATFE is really all about taxes. The laws regarding NFA weapons are all tax laws. Even today, each case of booze is serialized.


    And if you think the BATFE's firearms regulations are arcane, try dealing with bottling distilled spirits....Do you know, for example that you cannot posess an empty liquor bottle unless you fit one of a few specific cases? There is a $1000 fine and/or a year in the slammer for illegal posession of an empty liquor bottle (I kid you not)



    6. Refilling, Reusing and Disposing of Liquor Bottles

    (b) Disposition of liquor bottle - The possession of used liquor bottles by any person other than the one who emptied the contents thereof is prohibited, except that this prohibition shall not:

    (1) prevent the owner or occupant of any premises on which such bottles have been lawfully emptied from assembling the same on such premises

    (i) for delivery to a bottler or importer on specific request for such bottler or importer;

    (ii) for destruction either on the premises on which the bottles are emptied or elsewhere, including disposition for purposes which will result in the bottles being rendered unusable as bottles; or

    (iii) in the case of unusual or distinctive bottles, for disposition as collectors' items or for other purposes not involving the packaging of any products for sale;

    (2) prevent any person from possessing, offering for sale, or selling such unusual or distinctive bottles for purposes not involving the packaging of any product for sale; or

    (3) prevent any person from assembling used liquor bottles for the purpose of recycling or reclaiming the glass or other approved liquor bottle material.

    Any person possessing liquor bottles in violation of law or regulations is subject to a fine of not more that $1000, imprisonment for not more than 1 year, or both.




    Good Grief...



    Willie (who ran a small Vodka distillery once upon a time)

    .
     
    Last edited: Jul 6, 2013
  23. TRX

    TRX Member

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    ...and I thought all those hippies sticking candles in old Crown Royal bottles were doing it because they were too cheap to buy candlesticks. And now it turns out it was civil disobedience... nah, I figure it was because they were cheap.
     
  24. beatledog7

    beatledog7 Member

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    BATFE is a great example of government regulatory power run amok.

    I can imagine government spies listening in an phone calls, tracking what we look at on-line, and following our physical movements via cameras not solely for the purpose of catching us doing something illegal but also for discovering everything we like to do so they can regulate that as well.

    Imagine? It's already happening.
     
  25. TheOld Man

    TheOld Man Member

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    Willie Sutton said;
    Until 1984, every bottle of distilled liquor sold in the USA had a serial number on the strip across the top of the bottle. The BATFE is really all about taxes. The laws regarding NFA weapons are all tax laws. Even today, each case of booze is serialized.

    And if you think the BATFE's firearms regulations are arcane, try dealing with bottling distilled spirits....Do you know, for example that you cannot posess an empty liquor bottle unless you fit one of a few specific cases? There is a $1000 fine and/or a year in the slammer for illegal posession of an empty liquor bottle (I kid you not)


    I remember a case in California years ago where they were collecting empty bottles from bartenders and refilling them. Now bartenders are supposed to break the neck of the bottle when they empty it. Bootlegging operation was done out of a bakery near my house.
     
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