Forced to be unarmed

[Jeff White]

oneshooter said;

I will be weaponless from the time I leave my vehicle till the time I return to it. No firearm, not even my small folder in my pocket!!!
I shall raise my awarness to High Red, as the jury room in in deepest,darkest Downtown Houston. Who knows what wild critters inhabit this place. Haven't been there in years, never had, or felt a need to!

If you consider yourself unarmed and helpless without weapons then you most likely are unarmed and helpless with them. Weapons are not magic. Their mere presence on your person will not ward off evil. They are inanimate objects and they are absolutely useless to you with out your real weapon....Your mind!

Unless they are giving you a lobotomy at the metal detector, you won't be entering the courthouse unarmed. There are all kinds to tools there that you can use to defend yourself and others with. You just have to think!

It's the man, not the tool who wins the fight.

Jeff

 

[rainbowbob]

If you consider yourself unarmed and helpless without weapons...

Unless I missed something, the OP didn't say he considered himself "helpless" - just unarmed (i.e., no gun - no knife).

You make a good point about fighting with your mind - but I'd also like to have a weapon with me if I'm assaulted...wouldn't you?

 

[Jeff White]

rainbowbob said;

You make a good point about fighting with your mind - but I'd also like to have a weapon with me if I'm assaulted...wouldn't you?

If I'm planning to be assaulted I intend on taking the other guys on my old tactical team or a rifle platoon with me. Everyone, with the possible exception of the screen writer for a Steven Segal or Jean Claude Van Damme movie wants a weapon when they are assaulted. But the non-permissive environments are a fact of life and it's not going to change. People will have to learn to cope with them.

People who are are interested in living their lives as trouble free as possible need to already have thought about how they will defend themselves or others in a non-permissive environment before they go there.

Too many people in the gun culture think that the tools of self protection are in fact self protection. But they aren't, they are only tools. Relying solely on the presence of a weapon to keep one safe makes one just as much of a sheeple as those they insult with that name because they choose not to carry a weapon. A sheep with a 1911, M67 frag, M240 or MX missile is still a sheep. It is the will to take care of yourself and others with any or none of those tools that makes one a free self reliant man.

Jeff

 

[p2000sk]

I just recently served. Spent a lot of time near the coffee machine.
A Bunn-O-Matic makes a great improvised weapon.
If you have a good shoulder you can wing it around by the cord too.

 

[Zundfolge]

Here's a little homework for you tonite.

http://www.fija.org/

 

[BullfrogKen]

Two years ago the entire NTI event (National Tactical Invitational) was conducted with the theme of going to places we can't carry a gun.


In places where we can't carry by statute, there are often armed people present. If something terrible happens, the Practitioners learned someone else just might be carrying the gun you're going to use.

The mind is the weapon. While a gun is an effective means of self-defense, it is not the only means of self-defense we have available. I stood not 10 feet from the Governor while he delivered an impassioned speech at the Capitol for stricker gun control laws. I had to pass through a metal detector to step foot into that room. I was quite armed at the time.



I'm moving this to S&T. I think its more appropriate there.

 

[sm]

I am not comfortable with the term sheeple, though I have been guilty of using it in the past.

Words...yeah, of all folks to speak of English Language, I feel the importance is diminished in the use of some words such as sheeple, shottie, and dirtbag.

I have spent a lot of time in areas where I cannot carry a weapon, even before CCW came to be , and before 9/11 , Homeland Security, TSA and whatever else came to be.

I was disarmed back then, and still today find myself disarmed.

Re: Jury duty.
Yes I have spent my time in a Courthouse, including jury duty.
I was the Foreman on a 4 day criminal case.

That was a human being, killed by a criminal, using a shotgun.

That female was not a sheeple, she was real live person, with family, friends and was a contributing member to society.
That was a stolen shotgun, a damn nice one at that, as one would see used upland hunting, or shooting clay games.
That person person brought in, was dressed in nice clothes, haircut, and clean shaven in that courtroom.
Granted this person was not dressed or appeared the day of the alleged incident.
This was the individual brought to trial, not a dirtbag.

Innocent until proven guilty

Human beings whether they are good or bad, are human beings and they are real.

I have changed my thinking some over the years, and being human I too let my tongue slip...

I am not a sheeple, I am a human being, I am worth something, and my life has meaning.

Nobody can diminish me, unless I choose to give them power over me.

This is going to sound wrong, still the same COTUS and BoR extends to me, those that choose to have different political view, and even the Criminal.

I do have respect for some folks that have different view on politics, and even do not like guns, and support gun control.
These folks articulate why, and will investigate for themselves.
Some have since change to being Pro Gun, and political views.

Criminals, intrigue and some have my respect.

15 year old black youth, that had been in gang since very young, went into a Witness Protection Program if you will.
I was able to spend time with him, we got along.
Oh he admits he was a criminal, and he did criminal acts, still he has my respect as he was honest, and admitted his wrongs, and made "amends" best could.

I learned a lot from him, last I heard he was doing well, as an honest member of society.

That was not a droopy drawer, gangbanger, with a foul mouth, he was a human being, with faults as we all have, and he was real.

Go visit a prison sometime, you do not even get onto the property with anything, and your vehicle is checked.
Try a Military base, same deal.

Jury duty "might" afford one an option of getting to, and leaving from with a CCW and knife locked in the vehicle.

Many folks everyday arrive to work, leave work, with no such option.
These Correction workers, and Military personal, are not sheeple.

 

[TexasRifleman]

How about this amazing addition to the Pennsylvania statutes for CHLs.

This was smart to include, wish we had this in Texas. Gets you to the door at least, which is progress.

(e) Facilities for checking firearms or other dangerous weapons.—Each county shall make available at or within the building containing a court facility by July 1, 2002, lockers or similar facilities at no charge or cost for the temporary checking of firearms by persons carrying firearms under section 6106(b) or 6109 or for the checking of other dangerous weapons that are not otherwise prohibited by law. Any individual checking a firearm, dangerous weapon or an item deemed to be a dangerous weapon at a court facility must be issued a receipt. Notice of the location of the facility shall be posted as required under subsection (d). (Chgd. by L.1999, Act 59, eff 2/15/00.)

 

[AirForceShooter]

Defensless?
not hardly. While you serve you're the most powerful person in that courthouse.
You can tell the governmnet to get lost. And no one can question you.
Now that's power

AFS

 

[GEM]

I had to go to the courthouse to get some forms the other day. Made it out alive. I projected my steely eyed dealer of death aura which overwhelmed the wolves who thought I was a FOG Sheeple. Or maybe, I just walked in and out and nothing happened.

 

[vis-à-vis]

Zundfolge, good show on posting the link to FIJA! I was just about to do that

 

[Jeff White]

Just a reminder, this thread is in the Strategies and Tactics forum now. That means posts on things like jury nullification and other political topics are off topic and will be deleted.

Jeff

 

[vis-à-vis]

Just a reminder, this thread is in the Strategies and Tactics forum now. That means posts on things like jury nullification and other political topics are off topic and will be deleted.

Jeff

 

[xds&gsps]

I had my first real court experience sitting through the trial of one of our foster children's biological-mother. I found myself looking for weapons in the courtroom as well as in my pockets. I think we would be surprised as to what "weapons" we have at our disposal even when we are w/out knife or gun. I do agree I would rather have my .45 than a sportsman's warehouse bic pen.

Jay

 

[conw]

Bad choice of title

Like others have said, use your mind. I agree that a courtroom is not the best place to be unarmed should something crazy happen. Depends on the nature of the trial I suppose.

 

[Cosmoline]

If you get picked ask your baliff and see if they have provisions for storing a juror's CCW. If you get pulled into a long trial leaving your weapon in your car parked in a bad area is not good. Most court systems try to be flexible with jurors.

 

[GEM]

Local courthouse has a sign that it won't store assorting instruments of evil. So you have to walk in gung-fu position from the parking garage to the entrance and back.

Usually, the streets are scattered with lots of law, though.

 

[TexasRifleman]

What was that about courthouses being safe places?

Just happened today:

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,354613,00.html

ST. PETERSBURG, Fla. — About 12 seconds was all it took for two bailiffs to gun down a man who shot at them in a courthouse lobby, and authorities said the swift response helped prevent anyone else from being seriously hurt.

Glen Lee Powell carried a semiautomatic handgun, 79 rounds of ammunition, an extra gun magazine, a lengthy fighting knife and a gas mask into the downtown St. Petersburg courthouse just after the lunch hour Wednesday. He fired at least two shots before Deputies B.J. Lyons and Marvin Glover fatally wounded him, Pinellas County sheriff's Sgt. Jim Bordner said Thursday.

Well if most courthouses have reactions like that from the bailiffs the only problem will be the parking lot.

 

[oneshooter]

Well I made it out alive. There was a lot of Sheriffs Deputies about.

Mayhaps "sheeple" was not the best choice of terms. "lonly without my friends" would have been better?

There is NO provision for on site secure storage of CCL firearms in Texas. Only LE have that available ,when they are involved in Federal court.

My cane gor a few looks and was checked for hidden blades. A piece of screwbean mesquite 30"long, tapering from 1 1/2" to 3/4" with a 8-12oz brass ball on top was aparently not concidered a weapon!

Wasn't chosen for a jury, was dismissed at 12:30pm and made my way back to the truck.

All and all a somewhat informative, and long, day.

Oneshooter
Livin in Texas

 

[sm]

Courthouse S&T

- Arrive early enough to get parking meters, near courthouse.

Do pay attention if the meter is a restricted one, such as "no parking between 7-9am, and 4-6pm". These are for traffic control and your vehicle will be moved.
Parking tickets rec'd at regular meters, are taken care of by the Baliff.

- The Gaunlet.

Judge and Baliffs will take prudent steps for your safety.
Listen to them, and follow instructions.

Arriving for say a 10am trial, sometimes Baliff will have made arrangements for parking, and will have escorts to walk jurors to the courthouse.

If a case is going to run long, steps will be taken for jurors to move cars, closer, and where they can be watched, and jurors will be escorted out.

Jurors will be allowed to leave after the trial, the judge will keep ever one else
in the courtroom until jurors have had time to leave, get to vehicles,and leave the area.

On arrival, do not go to courtroom.
Go to juror room.
Business is often being transacted in the courtroom, and some in court are criminals, do not got to where trouble is.

In the courtroom and during proceedings, jurors have rights, and one is if they do not feel safe, for any reason, raise your hand, and approach the bench, and if need in chambers, express concern.

Listen to the Baliffs.
Follow their instructions.

Do not approach a Baliff in the halls.
Do not approach a Baliff in the halls.
Don not approach a Baliff in the halls.

While it might be obvious a person is in a orange jump suit, with hands and feet in chains, these criminals might also have a taser belt.

You approach the Baliff, and that criminals decides to act up, and you are near that criminal is going to grab you.

That Taser belt is pretty stout, at least two Baliff's have the remote.
a.You are going to get tasered.
b.The effect "might" be more "absorbed" by you, than the criminal and the criminal now has distraction and diversion to act up.

Some "accused" are not in restraints, or appear to be in restraints and are walking with a Baliff.
You do not know.

Always let the Baliff approach and address you , this is for your safety in a courthouse, even if you are not a juror.

-Listen and follow instructions.
Courtrooms from small town, to big city, county, state and federal have protocol to keep folks safe.
If you are juror, or witness for pros/def, character witness - anything listen and follow instructions.

If one deviates, they not only put themselves at risk, also other citizens and officers of the court.

 

[Avenger29]

I don't get to carry a gun at all right now. I go to college, where I can't have one, and I work on federal property, where I am prohibited from having one. I am also under 21, so no CCW permit for me.

I get by everyday for some reason...

 

[sm]

Avenger29,

I can empathize as can countless others.

What you know, and will continue to learn now, will reap huge benefits later on when you are 21 and have a CCW, and then are not on property where you are restricted.

You do not have all your tools in your toolbox being physical items.
You are actually better armed than many that do have guns, and some that have CCW.

You know this...

 

[Avenger29]

Believe me, Steve, I take the lessons of you and others to heart...I am as well armed with physical objects as I can be...and my head is the best tool of all. I can't wait until I can carry (and, I might even get into law enforcement), but that is in the future.

 

[BamaHoosier]

I served on a jury once for a non-support case.I didn't mind it one bit.It was a learning experience for me.I look forward to serving again,if so called.I agree that lockers should be afforded to citizens,as well as LEOs.If I have to go to the courthouse,I lock my CCW and pocketknife in the glovebox while I'm there.Our CH isn't the big city venue,so it's pretty darn secure in there.

 

[Everman]

If all the smart people get out of jury duty then we're just left with juries full of people who...are not smart. If you have a jury trial some day for whatever reason, what kind of jury do you want to be the fact finder in your case?

Anyways there isn't much to worry about in courthouses, generally there's cctv everywhere and a judge only has to hit a button under his desk to get a dozen officers in the courtroom instantly. Appellate courts are another matter, not much of a police presence there because it's not really needed, and they're so much nicer.