gvnwst
Member
I understand your pride perfectly
http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=14463&highlight=rugerI ended up with a brand new Ruger #1 Tropical in .458 Win Mag, . . . now I have an Elephant gun. Wheeeee!
Too bad we are short on Elephants here this season...
I think I want to rechamber it in either .460 G&A or .460 Weatherby. Might as well go all the way now.
http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=63657&highlight=dgI recommend the Winchester Safari Classic model 70 or the CZ BRNO 550 (Mauser) . . .
The only drawback to the CZ 550 is the hole in the end of the bolt handle, which can be welded up or filled with epoxy; and the reverse polish safety . . .
http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=65088&highlight=brno+602If you want to have some experimental fun with a no frills big bore, go out and get one of the CZ/BRNO 550 rifles in .375 H&H or .416 Rigby.
http://pistolsmith.com/pistolsmiths/1550-cast-vs-barstock-frames.html#post13843Here is the MD Labs take on the issue:
A cast [1911] slide is a nightmare waiting to happen. Castings, especially those with sufficient
carbon content to be hardenable, tend to precipitate the carbides in fernlike dendrites,
rather than allowing even distribution of the carbides throughout the structure.
This causes built in weaknesses. Imagine the dendrites as the perforations in paper, in the
nature of fracture lines waiting to occur after stresses have been exerted on those areas.
Obviously, this is less than desirable in a combat weapon.
I think we're talking about AR-15 receivers. I personally have never heard of a cast receiver for an AK-47, but I have heard of people inadvertently buying a cast-receiver AR-15 from a fun (gun) show.I keep hearing about forged and cast receivers. Whats the difference & which one is better? Don't they also mill receivers also? Thnaks Tim
Forged receivers can also be crap. Good design, process controls, and quality control are far more important to making a good part than just "forging" it
Smith Enterprise, Inc. Receiver Design, Manufacture and Testing
All Smith Enterprise receivers ever made have been out of certified AISI 8620 alloy steel.
About 1985, Smith Enterprise began producing M14 receivers after several months of
planning and evaluation. This included generating its blueprints and engineering
sketches. . . .
Smith Enterprise made its very first receivers by the precision investment casting method.
The raw castings left a large amount of metal that had to be machined away to obtain the
final form. All Smith Enterprise investment cast receivers have been made with virgin bar
stock AISI 8620 alloy steel certified by the supplier and verified by Smith Enterprise.
Then one finished receiver was selected for destructive testing. Scott Medisha was a
witness to this destructive testing. First, ten rounds of 65,000 psi proof test ammunition
were fired. Next, 76,000 psi proof test rounds were fired. After four rounds of 76,000 psi
proof test ammunition, there were some signs of problems but the receiver had not failed.
The cases were seizing in the chamber. Therefore, Scott Medisha went home and
loaded up one round of ammunition. Ron Smith states this cartridge was loaded with a
large charge of Hercules (now Alliant Techsystems) Unique pistol powder and a 175 grain
bullet. Taking suitable precautions, the destruction cartridge was loaded into the rifle
chamber and fired. Scott Medisha achieved the desired result. The receiver failed with a
dull, muffled boom. The cartridge case vaporized, the barrel blew out about two feet in
front of the stock, and the bottom forward one inch of the bolt blew apart, the magazine
blew out of the action and all magazine spot welds gave out. The back of the receiver
gently rolled off to one side. The receiver on both sides behind the locking lugs cracked.
However, the locking lugs on the receiver and the bolt held! The M14 enthusiast should
not turn his nose up at a well-made investment cast receiver.
page 178 on, destructive testing of investment cast Smith Ent. M14
http://www.second-amendment.org/misc/M14_RHAD.pdf
Verhoeven's research demonstrates the source of the fine cementite bands is carbide formers located in the interdendritic regions of a cast hypereutectic steel. These carbide formers are relatively immobile even at short high heats and are nucleating sites for spheroidal cementite growth during heat cycling and forging. So the pattern source is dendritic. (bold emphasis added)
http://forums.dfoggknives.com/index.php?showtopic=10443&st=140
The problem with cast high carbon steel (as opposed to cast titanium alloy} is that the carbides precipitate in dendrites, rather than being evenly distributed throughout the steel as in forged material. (bold emphasis added)
4140 has plenty of carbon to form carbide dendrites.
Anything hardenable can, under the right circumstances.
This book explains the metallurgy of steel and its heat treatment for non-metallurgists. It starts from simple concepts—beginning at the level of high-school chemistry classes—and building to more complex concepts involved in heat treatment of most all types of steel as well as cast iron. It was inspired by the author when working with practicing bladesmiths for more than 15 years. Most chapters in the book contain a summary at the end. These summaries provide a short review of the contents of each chapter. This book is THE practical primer on steel metallurgy for those who heat, forge, or machine steel.
http://asmcommunity.asminternationa...b2b41ce0f8110VgnVCM100000701e010aRCRD&itemId=
In 2007-2008, pages 2-5 of this thread featured McClung's first challenger
-- Daniel. McClung refused to engage this credible detractor, leaving me
to try to fill the gap.
Topic: "Dendritic D-2 steel" - what's it?
Cross section analysis will show the dendrite structure of carbides in any high carbon steel casting.
These are the reason Ruger's frames have to be so fat, that dendritic knives don't hold up, and that I won't use cast high carbon steel.
The problem here is that to derive any strength, the carbides must be evenly distributed throughout the steel. This is why PM steels go to such pains to ensure that even alloy distribution is maintained.
When these carbides precipitate out into veins (dendrites) each of them becomes a potential fracture line in the steel.
http://www.tacticalforums.com/cgi-b...ebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=8;t=000271;p=1#000001
Topic: Dendritic Cobalt Carbide?
Nearly any high carbon steel, once smelted into an ingot, will exhibit a dendritic cast structure.
Subsequent rolling and forging of the cast steel ingot breaks up and distributes the carbides throughout the structure.
http://www.tacticalforums.com/cgi-b...ebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=8;t=000434;p=1#000007
McClung sent you on a Fools Errand.
"From the outset it was clear that, while he [at age 2] enjoyed the praise,
Kevin had scant tolerance for criticism."
-- Dark Genius (1991), p. 28, by Kevin McClung and Stephen J. Rivele
"If someone who is a darling of the industry gets challenged here or elsewhere, what's the problem? Their schtik will either hold up or collapse of its own merit once carefully scrutinized. I for one see no reason to harbor sacred cows for any reason."
-- Kevin McClung, from his forum
The thesis here is that cast steel receivers are inherently less desirable in a Dangerous Game Rifle (DGR) than a properly heat treated forged billet machined steel receiver. Why? Because the cast receivers are not as durable or reliable due to the process they are created with: Vacuum Casting.
So I called CZ-USA this morning and talked to the gentleman who answers
questions on the 550 Safari rifles. Lo and behold they are all forged.
"Bolts on a few rifles (not magnums) are cast but all recievers are
forged." But best to email them and get it in writing is my thought.
". . . that the action frame seems to be an investment
casting, but is so well finished and fitted it is hard to tell."
Why cast a tube when steel manufacturers produce hot rolled round bar stock direct from the mill?My question is does any major firearms manufacturer use a cast barrel or are they all forged.
Also what makes a barrel that is "cold hammer forgered" better than any other quality barrel or is this nothing more than advertising hype?
When CZ moved . . . in the 1960s, it ceased production of its machined M-98 Mauser clone and designed a new action called the ZKK series, an investment casting.
-- Gregor Woods, Rifles For Africa, p. 357 (2002)
Next time an anti says we are just a bunch of gun loving, stupid, ignorant hicks, I'm whipping this thread out!
A great read everyone, I've really enjoyed it.