Forward Assist? What?

[Archangel14]

I'm doing my best to learn about the AR platform. I've read about this "forward assist" thing. I've looked it up. It appears to be the protruding, cylindrical handle at the rear of the receiver (typically on the right hand side). Am I correct in that observation? If so, here are my questions:

1. what the heck does it do?
2. is it really a necessary item? It appears that the S&W Sport doesn't have one, but everyone seems to think that the Sport is a top-notch platform "for the money". If that's the case, do we really need a FA?
3. Finally, as I will likely be building an AR, do I really need a FA for a rifle that I plan to rely upon should, ahem, things get a little nutty in terms of a large scale, longer term, riot-type situation? Is it just fluff? I don't need fluff. Never liked fluff. Big rims are fluff. I like the rims that came with my car.

Thank you!

 

[68wj]

1. what the heck does it do? There are no reciprocating parts on the outside of the AR. If you want to push the bolt forward for any reason, there is nothing there except the FA
2. is it really a necessary item? It appears that the S&W Sport doesn't have one, but everyone seems to think that the Sport is a top-notch platform "for the money". If that's the case, do we really need a FA? Typically, no. I like to use mine for a brass check to ensure the bolt is fully seated. For immediate action, you will want to get rid of the offending cartridge.
3. Finally, as I will likely be building an AR, do I really need a FA for a rifle that I plan to rely upon should, ahem, things get a little nutty in terms of a large scale, longer term, riot-type situation? Is it just fluff? Not fluff, just not a vital piece of the gun.

 

[henschman]

The original AR-10 and AR-15 designs back in the 50s and 60s did not have a forward assist. The reason being that the bolt has a recess on it that can be pushed forward with the shooter's thumb to close the bolt if it is not fully in battery. If more force than that is needed, it is usually a bigger problem than can be solved by jamming on a forward assist button, and the bolt probably SHOULDN'T be jammed shut forcibly. The forward assist was requested by the Army brass for the M-16A1 model, along with other changes that were intended to increase reliability. It is more of a "peace of mind" thing, and isn't the result of deficiencies or reported problems in the prior design. It is not a necessary part of the rifle. That said, it doesn't really have any sort of significant downside. It is one of the parts of the mil spec that I can take or leave when it comes to my own personal rifles. If I could get a comparable rifle for less money without it, I would.

 

[Naybor]

If your life hangs in the balance you need another shot, and you need it RIGHT NOW, that little "forward assist" button will more than likely become the most important thing on the rifle.

Otherwise, if you have all the time in the world, it's not that important.

Just my personal observations.

 

[MTMilitiaman]

The idea behind the forward assist, is, as mentioned, that because the AR doesn't have a recipricating charging handle like, say, the AK, the user has no way to close the bolt if it fails to go completely into battery, for whatever reason. As our training mentality has changed, this has become less of a problem. It is currently accepted that if a round fails to chamber, it is probably better just to go to your immediate action drills and get it out of the rifle. The one time the forward assist does come in handy is when you are brass checking your rifle, esp if you need to do it silently. You can pull the bolt back an inch or so with the charging handle, but sometimes there won't be enough spring pressure from the buffer to completely return the bolt to battery with it only moved back this small amount. It's nice to be able to just give the forward assist a little bump to make sure your bolt is fully returned to battery before closing the ejection port cover and getting down to business. That's the only reason I can think of where the forward assist comes in handy. In every other case, when the bolt refuses to close, it's probably better to get the offending cartridge out of the rifle completely as quickly as possible. This is why some of the lower end, basic models from DMPS, S&W, and others don't have the forward assist.

 

[Shmackey]

IIRC, the manual of arms used to dictate pushing the FA after chambering a round every time. If you were trained like this and don't want to change, I suppose a missing FA would be a problem.

 

[keithbayne]

telling you as it was told to me at paris Islnad in 1974. these rifle were crap. they jam,hung up,guys got killed.so the forward assist was put on later to aid in slamming the bolt into position as the smallest piece of dirt or grime would cause a fail to feed.
Mr. Kobayashi
Guest Join Date: Feb 2004

Firearm experts - is/was the M16 a piece of crap?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Comparative to other assault rifles, that is. The M16 rifle has a reputation of being an overcomplicated jam-prone liability to its user, especially when compared to its hardy, more inaccurate Soviet counterpart, the AK-47. Reading the wiki article seems to confirm this popular conception, a Vietnam vet recounting that "We left with 72 men in our platoon and came back with 19, Believe it or not, you know what killed most of us? Our own rifle. Practically every one of our dead was found with his [M16] torn down next to him where he had been trying to fix it.
- Marine Corps Rifleman, Vietnam.[30]" (from the wiki on the M16).

NOW,ALL THAT HBEING SAID,I AM not HATEING ON THE NEW M16/ar15?M4
THEY HAVE LIKE EVERYONE ELSE,FOUND PROBLEMS,AND FIXED THEM.ALL IM SAYING IS,IT WAS WHAT IT WAS.

 

[Archangel14]

Wow Keithbane! Make one want to get an AK!

 

[henschman]

Guys were getting killed because they issued rifles with improper ammo that caused damage to the rifles and frequent malfunctions, because they issued them without cleaning kits and in some cases told soldiers not to clean them, and because soldiers weren't taught the proper lubricating technique. It had nothing to do with a lack of a forward assist. Other changes with the A1, such as the chrome-lined bore, actually did help reliability and longevity, though.

 

[TonyAngel]

telling you as it was told to me at paris Islnad in 1974. these rifle were crap. they jam,hung up,guys got killed.so the forward assist was put on later to aid in slamming the bolt into position as the smallest piece of dirt or grime would cause a fail to feed.

This may have been the case then; but it certainly isn't the case now.

The FA is used as described above. It is nice to have, just in case you want/need to make sure that the round that you just chambered is properly seated.

You still have to remember, however, that if you are considering getting a rifle without the FA, you will likely also have to give up the dust cover and I really like having the dust cover.

 

[cfullgraf]

You still have to remember, however, that if you are considering getting a rifle without the FA, you will likely also have to give up the dust cover and I really like having the dust cover.

I agree. I kind of like the dust cover, particularly on the ARs that might get carried or stored in less than favorable conditions.

I have one varmint ARs without the forward assist and once in a while a round will not fully chamber. It is kind of a pain to get the bolt into battery.

Fulton Armory and others sell a modified bolt carrier and upper that has a charging handle screwed into the bolt carrier. A forward assist would be redundant on these as the charging handle could be bumped to get the bolt into battery. I might try one of these out on the next built.

Even without the forward assist, i would take an AR over an AK. The AK is a marvelous rifle for the purpose it was designed for. But it just does not have the accuracy potential of the AR. And Col. Whelen said only accurate rifles are interesting.

 

[oldguy870]

It is useful for loading the gun silently.

1. Lock bolt back.
2. Drop a round into the chamber by hand.
3. Gently use the charging handle to slowly release the bolt and ride it forward.
4. Press on forward assist to lock bolt.
5. Insert loaded mag.

When you don't want to announce to the world you are loading your gun.

 

[Double Naught Spy]

When you don't want to announce to the world you are loading your gun.

Yes! I find that very helpful when I get to the stand and forget to have chambered a round and I am watching critters. It wells well doing it like you described.

 

[oldguy870]

Exactly. When I coyote hunt, this is how I load my gun. Quiet is good.

 

[meanmrmustard]

Gotta say, out deer hunting with the Sport (no FA), letting the bolt down with just enough authority to chamber the round was no louder than chambering a bolt action. That said, if eased down, bolt could be pressed forward into battery with your thumb. Needless to say, well...it's needless to me.

Side note: Sport with 55 gr Barnes Vortx is murder on deer, literally!

 

[Vern Humphrey]

1. what the heck does it do?

It allows you to shove the bolt home if it fails to completely lock.

2. is it really a necessary item? It appears that the S&W Sport doesn't have one, but everyone seems to think that the Sport is a top-notch platform "for the money". If that's the case, do we really need a FA?

If you're humping your M16 through the jungle, across rice paddies, handing in dust blown LZs, you betcha you want a forward assist!

3. Finally, as I will likely be building an AR, do I really need a FA for a rifle that I plan to rely upon should, ahem, things get a little nutty in terms of a large scale, longer term, riot-type situation?

Do you forsee the need to rapidly reload a hot, dirty rifle? If so, I'd have a forward assist.

 

[TonyAngel]

Archangel, I just reread your original post and it sounds like you're thinking about building yourself a rifle.

If this is the case, I think you're putting a lot of thought into a non issue. The uses of a FA have been discussed above, so I won't rehash all of that; however, the question that pops into my head is why would you want to build a rifle without a forward assist.

The FA and dust cover were left off of the S&W Sport as a cost cutting measure. The Sport is not, nor was it intended to be any sort of "duty" weapon. Even S&W recognizes this and this is evidenced by their higher end models, which do include a forward assist and dust cover.

Besides, you're kind of going to have to go looking for an upper that doesn't include the FA or dust cover, because most of the uppers out there include these two things. If you don't want the FA or dust cover, then seek out one of these slab side receivers. If you don't mind having these, then you can have your pick of the litter.

 

[meanmrmustard]

It allows you to shove the bolt home if it fails to completely lock.

If you're humping your M16 through the jungle, across rice paddies, handing in dust blown LZs, you betcha you want a forward assist!

Do you forsee the need to rapidly reload a hot, dirty rifle? If so, I'd have a forward assist.

Rice paddies? LZs? Rifles of ole didn't always have such crap, and they won wars.

 

[tarakian]

I have no forward assist (or dust cover) on my EGW custom AR. It does have the side charging handle though. Currently have two builds in process, which will both be of the same configuration. I have found it much easier and quicker to recover from a malfunction. I only use them for competitions, so my needs may be different than others. If you want to go with no forward assist/dust cover, I recommend the DPMS lo pro or hi pro upper receiver to build on.

 

[mf-dif]

The MP15 sport doesn't have a forward assist "button" but there is a scallop in the bolt that does the same thing. You just have to take your hand off the handle to use it.

Dust cover is for dragging your rifle around in extreme conditions. Sand storms, brush, snow, rain etc.

For civilian use I don't really see the need for any of it.

 

[Welding Rod]

Rice paddies? LZs? Rifles of ole didn't always have such crap, and they won wars.

On "rifles of ole" the back of the op-rod handle served as the forward assist. I can tell you that both the M1 and M14 did and do need the capability to wack the back of the op-rod handle from time to time.

 

[sugarmaker]

FA is useful if you want to ease the bolt down silently, then push the FA to lock up the action. Otherwise the action needs to slam shut to strip a round, chamber, and lock - probably spooking your target. Other than that it's not very useful to me as i keep the gun clean and lubed.

 

[coolluke01]

The FA would be needed to drive the bolt home when there is debris present or a out of spec or damaged round won't feed properly. If you hit the FA in those cases it will be very unlikely that the weapon will cycle properly. The offending debris or case will be stuck and the casing will most likely not come out.
The FA is a last ditch tool with the exception of the silent loading. It would be better to tap and rack than use the FA if you have the time.

A dust cover is a good thing to have IMO. Even when deer hunting or range shooting dirt can get in the bolt carrier and cause problems.

 

[rcmodel]

I think of the FA on an AR-15 like a 4x4 pick-up.

4x4 is nice to have to keep from getting stuck occsionally.

But when you finally do get stuck, and pound on it in 4-wheel drive?
It will get you REALLY REALLY STUCK big time!!

I agree with others that the only real good use of the FA is silent chambering, and checking if the bolt is locked or not.

But you can do that with the thumb cutout Gene Stoner designed into the side of the bolt carrier for the same reason.

rc

 

[Zerodefect]

Deosn't hurt to have it. It's nice to have options. I insist that all my AR's have one, even though I really don't recall ever using it. (I clean and lube my rifles properly)